Demise of good clothing retailers

[seahermit]

I have aired this topic before but this is just a short one about Marks and Spencer, whose sad decline must be making the original Jewish founders move restlessly in their graves.

A year or two back, I tried on a pair of burgundy corduroy trousers in M&S in Hastings. I am slim, so most "regular cut" things fit me fairly well (I can't stand skinny jeans or baggy-bottomed Chinos!). Terrible fit - tight in some places, baggy in others - very poorly tailored in short. I went into Debenhams and bought an excellent pair of similar cords (exactly the same measurements) for almost half the price - perfect fit with a nice "line" and they look good with a smart jacket.

M&S jeans used to be better, but the other week I made the same mistake! Bought a pair of black denim jeans and the fit was terrible , too tight in some places and bunched up, too loose in other places. Yesterday I found a similar pair of jeans in Sainsburys (good clothing section!) and the fit was perfect and smart.

If I thought they would take any notice, I would write to the Chief Executive or somebody! A good tailor knows that half an inch here and there makes a very big difference, but the M&S clothes are churned out en masse somewhere in Asia and they don't get the initial patterns completely right first.

[Richard]

M&S should copy the example of Waitrose and concentrate on food retailing.
A huge area of the shop is wasted on selling out-dated and dowdy clothing.

[seahermit]

It is hard for a non-business insider to know what is really going on, because M&S are hardly going to engage with the public and say frankly "We are doing badly" but the evidence is there if you look : not only, as you say, the outdated and dowdy clothing (and the poor quality of it) but also the simple lack of footfall. In Hastings and in the Ravenside branch, it is very rare to see more than one other customer besides myself in the men's clothing section. .. at any time of day.

The floor is deserted and so M&S's turnover can only be coming mainly from food sales - they would do their whole business a service by recognising their failure to tune in with what customers want - and to abandon clothes, specialise in food instead.

Was there always such lethargy amongst business concerns, an inability to adapt and change tack when things weren't working.? I suppose some businesses have disappeared because products become outdated or unfashionable, but M&S had a different customer base surely? They could always be relied on for "quality clothes" (often quite traditional ) which were also well-designed and smart. In my early working days, every male in the office bought his socks, jumpers and knickers in "a certain high street shop" and it became an ongoing joke and a cliche.

Maybe the costs of investment into new stores and new ways of trading are nowadays so huge that it is very difficult for an old company to change out of its tramline. But Primark manages to attract whole families browsing around and, foodwise, Lidl and Aldi are very much catching up on the big boys ..

[Prunesquallor]

I agree with the "poor quality" aspect of M&S. I bought a £35 pullover from them (top of the range for a miser like me) and it was literally coming apart at the seams after 10 months. I took it back to Ravenside and was told that after six months they didn't accept responsibility.

Don't go to M&S if you want your clothes to last 7 months or more!

[seahermit]

Hi Prunesquallor (magnificent name .. were you christened as such?!),

I would have replied to your post, but for some reason I haven't been getting notifications from the website. I will have to check my settings.

It makes me a little angry that M&S have such indifference to the wants of the public they are supposed to be serving. Because there are now almost no shops in this area where you can buy really good quality clothes .. so it's a golden opportunity for M&S to up their game and try to stand out a bit. I have noticed that in different shopping areas M&S target the customers with different ranges of clothing - I suppose that has to happen to some extent, because the nature of the demand (and the wealth of the local customers) varies. But wouldn't it be nice if they could stock just a few things which were better quality, made in in the UK (some hope) and just a little bit "exclusive"?

The only good clothing shop which comes to mind is Wards in Bexhill. Too traditional/old-fashioned for some but much of their stock is not like that but really nice - I bought a smart blue tweedy jacket (I couldn't stretch to Harris Tweed) which will probably last me the rest of my life!

And although the shop is undeniably expensive, it is often quite crowded - which M&S definitely ain't.

[seahermit]

Just a footnote to what I said before. I am not that keen on buying everything online especially clothes - I am an oldfashioned shopper who likes to wander around a lively highstreet on a nice afternoon, look at clothes, feel the texture etc. .. Apart from the ethics of many home-delivery vans clogging up the road networks.

However, I bought online a pair of burgundy Wrangler corduroy jeans - cost me £50 but they are infinitely smarter and better-cut than what M&S has to offer and will probably look good for some years.

If Wrangler can still maintain their quality and find customers who are willing to pay a bit more for it, why can't M&S? Sad in a way and I think it most unlikely that M&S will last in the long run as a clothing retailer.