Independence Day

If it's not Hastings related post it here! Politics, religion, whatever you like!
User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:12 pm

Hello cbe,

I must admit that I was dismayed/shocked by items of what you said and additionally cannot work out exactly who else you thought might be responsible for the Novichok attack.
We released a Russian spy in exchange for Mr. Skripal so for Russian agents to then go on to poison him seems strange, were they just holding Skripal in a Russian prison in order to arrange a Russian spy to be released from UK jails?
If that were the case then no wonder we are 'up in arms' about the suspected subsequent Russian State poisoning.
Who else but Russia would have the motive for doing this? Historic cases of poisoning on our streets, be it from organic poisons such as Ricin to radioactive ones like Polonium, always point back to Russia.

cbe
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:25 pm

Two things are all I can say now - 'Who else might have done it? Just about anyone! Yes it might have been Russia, but it MIGHT have been any one one of a dozen of other countries/entities. As regards all the other attacks 'which always point back to Russia' don't States involved in such attacks tend to carry them out successfully?

Enough from me on this

cbe
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Seahermit - sheer luck indeed. There is probably a Russian would-be assassin languishing in a Moscow cell as we speak. At some future date, in some as yet unspecified country he will be bumped off.

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby seahermit » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:15 am

It MIGHT indeed have been any one of a dozen countries which was involved in the Novichok poisoning - but the actual possibility is remote, it is nonsense to suggest that numerous other countries across the world have the technical expertise and the motives to deliver an attack of that kind. All the evidence so far makes Russia, on the balance of probabilities, overwhelmingly likely to be the culprit.

You seem to be suggesting that, because the attack was unsuccessful, it cannot have been perpetrated by Russia. Is that supposed to be a logical statement?!

During the Cold War, it was quite usual for Russian spies, posing as diplomats and trade officials, to make elementary blunders and get themselves into trouble - often because of a laughably naive understanding of how Western society functioned. Sometimes they got lucky e.g. the Markhov case (umbrella poisoning) which however was carried out by a Bulgarian agent. Or the infiltration of moles (Philby etc.).. But the KGB was never known as a highly efficient and feared secret service abroad in the way that, say, the Israeli Mossad was.

One of my bosses in a government office was an ex-spy. He was one of the team which caught Vassal (homosexual who was being blackmailed by the Russians and passing secrets). He was arrested after only a year or two. Very few Russian agents ever managed to stay hidden and operating for any great length of time.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2266
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:30 pm

I am not sure how email messages can be decoded in these days of secure encryption and what level of proof can be determined and that is perhaps one 'grey area' re- this form of proof of the Russian connection/culpability.
However it is unlikely that this channel can be entirely ignored especially given the prowess of UK security intelligence for very many years.
If we say we decoded messages emanating from Russian operators, that connect them to poisoning attempts, then I am prepared to trust them.
Anyone accused, yet given to question our expertise in this field on a world stage, will have to produce some pretty strong evidence to the contrary.
However, innocent until proven guilty rules the day and in the meant time the Russians (or anyone else) can get away with murder.

northants1066
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 5:26 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby northants1066 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:54 pm

hey you three, how did your reasonable fairly intelligent debate regarding Brexit descend into insulting each other over the Salisbury incident. As a staunch Leaver I was really enjoying your Brexit debate, which was on the whole even handed.

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby seahermit » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:11 pm

No insulting taking place - I don't see any examples of gratuitous rudeness/abuse.

Strong opinions come out in a debate, issues have to be hammered out. What's wrong with that? It's called free speech.


Return to “Non-Hastings Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest