Independence Day

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seahermit
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Re: Independence Day

Postby seahermit » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:49 pm

I agree of course, all the bullying and scare tactics are a nonsense, in the same way that all the predictions of economic doom made before the referendum came to nothing at all.

Businesses on the continent will still want to interact with the UK and to lose the UK market would be a severe blow to them - the EU will find ways of sorting it out in the long run deal or no deal, since not doing so would merely inflame the existing hostility within the EU to the bureaucracy. This is basically just a trade dispute, albeit a very messy one, hardly a fight for survival itself on the UK's part.

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:45 pm

We do not want a second referendum or a 'snap' general election as a result of T. May's current weakness.
The EU leaders are still refusing to allow any of T. May's suggestions, aka 'Chequers' and the Tory Party seems to have the determination and strength in numbers to thwart that plan also.
T. May is caught between a rock and a hard place and the Irish border is always a tricky issue.
Understandably the EU do not want us to leave whilst retaining many benefits on trade and customs and no easy solution is yet to be found.
The EU have to be tough in case other wish to follow our example.

Margaret Thatcher was rather strident at times but she was the one who stood up to the EU and managed to obtain a rebate and I suspect she would have battered them all senseless with her handbag by now...

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seahermit
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Re: Independence Day

Postby seahermit » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:50 am

It is truly difficult to see how it will all turn out. A second referendum would meet with angry opposition from a lot of people who voted decisively for Brexit and do not see why the electorate should be given the chance to "think again" about what future they want for the country. A second referendum would split the country very effectively and split the Tories even wider than at present.

An election would be even more divisive and damaging to the country.

The Tories are damaging themelves by their internal disagreements as opposed to trying to maintain some unity in the face of the EU's intransigence.

I feel there is some hope. From quite early on I felt that May was being underestimated by her opponents. She is proving to be surprisingly dogged, calm and determined - not quite another Thatcher but her plainspoken stance has engendered some respect. Whereas Johnson is not coming up with viable alternative proposals to present to the EU and, to my mind, is not coming over as a serious contender for the leadership.

The Tories will eventually have to decide whether to attempt some degree of unity in support of May or to oppose her and thus fracture the party into factions.

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:37 pm

It will be interesting indeed to see what comes out in the wash.
I have a lot of sympathy for T. May and certainly she has a cooler head than many others who jumped ship in a rather childish knee-jerk reaction.
Let the elected parliament decide the better way ahead, no second referendum and no general election which would amount to the same thing.

northants1066
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Re: Independence Day

Postby northants1066 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:57 am

Richard wrote:It will be interesting indeed to see what comes out in the wash.
I have a lot of sympathy for T. May and certainly she has a cooler head than many others who jumped ship in a rather childish knee-jerk reaction.
Let the elected parliament decide the better way ahead, no second referendum and no general election which would amount to the same thing.


Totally agree. And talking with friends yesterday. mostly Tory Leavers, it would seem that hers is the only viable position at present. I don't like "Chequers" but what other option is there now. Brussels is determined to make us suffer and have no intentions of conceding any ground. Their sole objective is to make the UK an example to other countries who may think about their own exits.

FYI I live in Peter Bones constituency and he has amazing support from the locals.

I have never been on a protest in my 70 years but if Corbyn forces another referendum or goes crawling to Brussels I may just have to. I fear there will be severe civil disobedience if the vote of June 2016 is not fully implemented. On the whole Leavers amongst the general population have been very quiet, but all hell could break loose very soon.

cbe
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Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:05 pm

I agree about dangerous times ahead should 'Brexit' be thwarted Northants, but Chequers is already a capitulation and as regards 'crawling to Brussels' there has been more than enough of that already.' As an aside - nice to see that I am not the only septuagenarian on the site.

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:12 pm

Yes! Cameron went crawling to the EU countries with his begging bowl (ahead of an impending “in-out” referendum) and they told him to 'get lost' and he immediately resigned when we subsequently voted to leave.
He had called the referendum as a risky gamble, promised in order to gain power, aimed at silencing the Eurosceptics in his own party.
Yet he had underestimated the backing 'Vote Leave' would receive on his own backbenches; and reckoned without the charismatic and popular former mayor of London, Boris Johnson, becoming its figurehead.
There was a sharp divide across Britain, with London and other major cities, and Scotland, voting to remain in the EU, while smaller towns and more deprived economic areas backed Brexit as Nigel Farage stirred up the working classes, who were easily led to blame foreign workers for their poor living conditions / unemployment.
They were told that we were paying huge amounts to the EU and saw that any benefits received were not passing to them at all.
T. May ('a former remainer') then took on the reigns, inheriting the mess created by Cameron and presented her own proposals but Brussels also said 'No!'

Is May now seen to be in retreat? Because if she is then it is unlikely that we will we ever be able to secure a good deal and so she will just have to step aside and let yet another take charge and sever the ties that bind, for better or for worse...

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:01 am

Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab has resigned - how long will T. May last now?
Events are unfolding fast...

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:38 pm

I simply don't understand.
Under T. May's latest ' EU Deal' agreement the French still reserve the rights to fish in our waters and display their typical and stupid arrogance about having us by the balls, forever and a day, if we do anything they (or the EU) dislike in future, with the Irish border customs-zone trickery as a kind of 'sword of Damocles' threat?
All political and business opinion seems certain that we will lose out on business deals, if we sign up to T. May's Brexit Deal and we will have to pay billions for the opportunity of her patent 'divorce' agreement.
Perhaps it is the lesser of two evils - perform badly for many years if we accept T. May's 'Deal' or even worse if we 'Brexit' with 'No Deal'.
It looks like the EU will control our future, come what 'May' and we are 'on a hiding to nothing'.
That's not what I voted for at all.
Does the EU really hold sway over us all and can, or should, they be able to dictate the terms of our future?

cbe
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Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:15 pm

We voted to Leave the EU. There was nothing on the voting paper about this deal or that deal.
Leave!! WTO terms and tell each of the 27 members of this 'trading bloc *snigger* that they can speak to us about better terms if they wish. Yes of course the Commissars will want to 'make us pay', in both senses of the term, but wait until the French farmers and the German car manufacturers' sales plummet and see how these bureaucrats get on explaining their position to their own people.
This is about sovereignty - everything else follows from that - if we have EU-induced problems for a few months so what? There is a greater prize. This scheming by the arch-Remainer MAY is a capitulation of the highest order and she has to count on there being enough thick voters in the country not to see through it. Project fear is upon us again - oh how we laughed.


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