Corbyn NEVER lets you down

[Richard]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ro ... 61831.html

[ColinL]

My post of yesterday seems to have disappeared so this will be a shortened version. I do not remember a couple of months ago cbe offering to post a few cases each week. Now that you have raised it again I would be delighted if you could provide the 'dozens of cases, rising every week's for weeks commencing 2 and 9 December. It should not be difficult as it is recent. By dozens however, do you mean say 48 in a 4 week period or perhaps 48 in a 26 week period. It would be useful to know so that it can be established if what you claim is fact or just opinion based upon news headlines and then multiplying by your own invented number.

I have never said that I rejected the handful of examples that you gave (one of them was from here on Tyneside. All I have ever said is that you cannot produce a handful and tell us that the fact is masses. That will simply not wash. You provided a tiny snippet of the NW CPS. It looks similar style to various other things people have put on here. A line or so can easily be taken out of context by a newspaper so it would be useful to have the full source. It and you have not said if the circular had ministerial approval which is important to back up your claim that it was Labour. Yes we all know that there was a Labour minister, that is the way things work.

I note that you have not responded to the full references that I gave of the Jay Report, that did not uphold your claim that Labour turned a blind eye to the issue. If you read the report you will find she identified many factors that led to the abuse not being tackled earlier. I know that a detailed report is a bit more difficult to read than half a dozen paragraphs in a newspaper but it is always necessary to go to more exacting sources. It is more complicated than you suggest. The tiny headline in your most recent post also says the police knew. I wrote a couple of months ago that the Police have powers to arrest and prosecute independent of the wishes of local councillors to whom you have been pointing the finger. They can arrest Mayors leaders of councils etc and do so. This issue existed before the government politicised policing with the election of PCCs. However Chief Constables still don't take orders from PCCs. Have you read the Jay Report?

The distinction I make between the different examples of child grooming does raise an important issue. The boys and girls who were abused by priests, vicar, nuns and brothers were directed to them as places of safety. That aspect was not present in the Rotherham and other cases. The children in the other cases were directly told by those in authority they could trust their abusers. cbe is now denying he has focussed on the aspect of the religion but that has been a continuous part of the thread. You seem wholly disinterested in abuse other than from one sector of society.

[ColinL]

cbe. Is there a cultural background to priests, vicar, choir masters, and nuns abusing?. You are continually pointing to Muslims but failing to recognise that the number of people is seemingly small in relation to the number of Muslims. Of course I don't think there is a cultural issue within christianity but also at present find no basis for suggesting, as you do that there is one in respect of abuse by predominantly Pakistanis, albeit that young women's rights are generally determined by family. That is also very similar to Christian fundamentalist, primarily in the US. Did you know that children are married off at the age of 12 or 13 in some states in the USA as most states don't have formal age of consent. It is usual that the man is much older than the girl and will be told who she will marry. Listened to a R4 documentary on it a while ago.

One factor is that most if not all of the white victims in Rotherham were within the care system albeit that there are high percentage of non white people in the town, that in itself gave the perpetrators a supply of victims. It is a couple of years since I read the Jay Report in detail but facts like the white girls in care is a pertinent fact.

[Richard]

An interesting article if you care to read it:

Contrary to stereotypes, there is no ‘grooming’ offence – let alone a ‘grooming gangs’ offence.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 6819895727

[ColinL]

Thanks for this reference in a long but necessarily detailed article.

This quote seemed to sum up the apparent position of cbe,

"According to Miah,28 sexual abuses carried out by Asian offenders are explained in terms of race and culture, whereas their white counterparts’ crimes are framed as individual deviance."

Without doubt all factors surrounding offences need to be considered, including all types of religion but caution needs to used in making rash conclusions.

cbe, I recommend that you read the article. It is shorter than the Jay Report

[cbe]

Thanks for your suggestion Colin -- I have read both - this one just after Richard put it up and the Jay report quite a while ago

[ColinL]

cbe, Given that you have said you have read the Jay report, do you have any response to this comment I made a while ago that does not support your view of 'Labour turning a blind eye'?

"The Jay report into the sexual explotation in Rotherham did not concur with your bare conclusion of a 'blind eye' by labour. The issue was complicated by numerous factors including the police, turnover of staff, individual, councillors and various other matters. You might wish to make it a simple political point; it was not. (pp 105.115) (See para 13.35 for example"

If you have read the Alexis Jay Report I am surprised that you seem to rely on your bare opinion only backed up by headlines from the Daily Mail, Express, and similar sources and tiny snippets of a sentence or so from unidentified sources

[Richard]

Key early contributions came from Labour MP Jack Straw: despite apparent disinterest in CSE while home secretary, ahead of a critical by-election he notoriously blamed ‘grooming’ on regressive British-Pakistani culture, arranged marriages and views of white girls as ‘easy meat’. His comments not only farcically implied that raping children is the natural alternative to premarital sex, but furthered myths that ‘repressed sexuality’ drives abuse and perpetrated Orientalist stereotypes about Muslim men’s ‘rapacious sexual appetites’. Other Labour politicians followed suit in emphasising the role of ethnicity and/or culture. Such spurious ‘cultural’ explanations have been criticised both within and beyond the context of CSE as a backdoor for ‘new racism’ in a supposedly ‘post-racial’ society

[cbe]

Richard - like ALL politicians Straw only gives HIS true feelings when he cannot be told to 'do something about it then'. A bit worrying though that yet again you mention or quote groups as suggesting racism is to blame for people's views. Being told that you cannot criticize people of colour (?) when they commit crimes is, surely, racist?

Colin - I am always grateful when you help me towards 'the truth' and yes I have re-looked at para 13.35. All I see are excuses put forward by a council for their children's safeguarding services. Short-staffed, high turnover of staff, bosses not listening. etc etc It is the same old same old. Lessons will be learnt.
These are not reasons for the 'problem' being ignored they are excuses.

Here a couple of articles by that beacon of integrity Yasmin Alibhai-Brown and you will note that even she, obviously with her normal caveats, spots a problem.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 46251.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 80318.html

[Richard]

Is it even useful to pre-judge what people of a certain region in Pakistan may possibly target young girls hanging out on the streets?
There has been much debate about whether to stop and search people of a certain colour or race. It usually just annoys those targeted.
Racial profiling is not seen as an effective law enforcement strategy, we have seen, in recent years, the way police in N. America pull coloured motorists over and then shoot, with tragic consequences when the driver reacts innocently.