The EU Referendum

[Richard]

It has become increasingly clear that there is a real disconnect between the huge numbers of potential immigrants (EU nationals, alone) that eagerly wish to earn money in a successful economy, offered up by leading countries such as the UK, and yet the apparent inability of this government to accommodate them, witnessed in its apparent unwillingness to provide funding for vital services such as the NHS or by encouraging the building of new homes and schools.
Our Government no longer subsidises the training of nurses or doctors, preferring instead to accept cheap-labour from the EU, thus fuelling the situation, and coupled with the fact that our Councils no longer have the resources (from the government) to fix problems in the local community, such as flooding and blocked drains in our roads and rivers and will happily let the issues spill over and become someone elses problem.
So, the government is eager to let EU labour march on ahead and keep big business happy by providing cheap-labour, but then exactly who, but private businesses, will eventually prop up the NHS in providing services that the government is seemingly unable to offer?
Then we have a political argument over who is best at protecting the NHS and encouraging our wonderful (foreign) nurses and doctors.
The Labour Party introduced public-private funding for new hospitals and this was later seen as unproductive, as large sums of money were wasted on inappropriate projects, and yet they now blame the Conservative Party for allegedly trying to privatize the NHS when in fact it might make sense to let the private sector handle certain services more cheaply.
So, can we really trust the politicians, or business to guide us, even if we wish to remain in the EU?
And then we have outfits like UKIP which seem to be used as an Aunt Sally!
Basically we seem to be damned if we do (exit) and damned if we don't.
It's probably too late to reverse the situation, brought about by political-engineering and a 'soft-touch' public who are caught in the headlights.
But a vote leave may shake them all up, which is no less than they deserve !!

[roy]

I hope people wont be intimidated by vote remain fear campaign,do what your head tells you and for me its about being patriotic and believing we can do better outside the EU,lets take back control and get the hell out.

[ColinL]

I have not lost control of my country.

I elect my MP; the majority party forms the government on our first past the post system. The British Prime Minister by virtue of the post is therefore one of the Council of Ministers. The elected government chooses the commissioners that it wishes to have in the same way that our representatives on NATO, the UN, the Commonwealth, the International Labour Organisation are appointed. The Council of Ministers sets the agenda of the policy it wants to pursue and the respective Commissioners create the legislation which is voted on by the MEPs if they bother to attend. (Mr Farage hardly bothered with the Fisheries Com). It is like any club that a person joins that establishes collective rules that apply to members equally.

I don't really know what patriotic means but I play my part in public affairs like anyone else who cares for their fellow citizens.

Losing control; taking back; them telling us what to do; a foreign country called Europe etc are part of the rhetoric and sound bite that I referred in the previous post.

I also condemn the equally rhetorical soundbites of; leaving will make us less secure; house prices will fall; the stock market will crash; increase in unemployment they are spin doctor soundbites.

[Richard]

I'm afraid the whole 'shebang' is so complex and interwoven by now that most people will have to rely on 'soundbites' to help make up their minds and will naturally just tune into what they want to hear, both sides playing on their fears and hopes.
Since it will take an estimated 7-10 years to withdraw from the EU, and will be very expensive, then is it better to stick with the devil we know?
The following article may be of interest:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... he-uk-vot/

[ColinL]

Already in the BBC TV debate I think I have heard the slogan 'take control, vote leave' perhaps 30 or 40 times. It is becoming less of a debate but partly an exchange of soundbites.

They have raised the idea of pointless red tape but none has actually been identified

[ColinL]

Andrea Leadsom uses 'take back control, vote leave' in almost every contribution she makes. She is a junior minister to your MP Amber Rudd

In addition Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson have several times quoted lists of things rather than providing some detailed argument

[moonjiver]

It is indeed impossible to extract reasoned conclusions about remaining/leaving from the tangle of preposterous claims and half-truths put out by campaigners. I feel that the Remain camp is rather more guilty of scaremongering and frankly bullshit, but generally the argument has become very aggressive and bitter - on Facebook there has been a storm of abusive personal attacks on the Leave politicians.

None of it improves one's respect for politicians and business leaders - they all seem to be working to personal agendas and have vested interests!

Oh dear, I will be using my own judgement tomorrow - I agree with Farage, people have been hoodwinked and the EU has been a disaster for Britain.

[Richard]

Asking us to vote simply for in/out is really difficult.
Right now the EU is in a mess and if we leave it will not improve, if we stay it won't either, so on balance does it even matter, especially since we have opted out of many of their schemes, like the Euro?
Are there 3 good reasons for staying?
That is up to the voter to decide, but many will probably vote on impulse or gut-feeling alone.

[moonjiver]

Just had one of the most exciting (and exiting!) nights of my life. Glued to TV. I dreamed of this, now Land of the Free can choose its own destiny and I get drunk this weekend!

[ColinL]

Now those wanting a directly provided NHS will find it replaced by a private insurance scheme as proposed by Gove in his 2005 book. Those parents who want a local authority school will find that the failing academy system will be imposed on them.

IDS will pursue even more aggresive welfare benefit 'reforms' that have already hit the disabled and sick. Many who were declared to be fit for work died within weeks of assesment. Further privatisations raping public assets. Sovereignity but at a price.

Ashamed to be British