Universal suffrage

If it's not Hastings related post it here! Politics, religion, whatever you like!
cbe
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Universal suffrage

Postby cbe » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:27 pm

I think that it is high time that the principle of universal suffrage went under the microscope.
When you get to the stage where a majority of voters take more out of the pot than they put in then the country is obviously headed into a downward spiral of debt and higher and higher taxation. That ever higher taxation will be paid by a smaller and smaller percentage of voters.

It is far too easy to keep voting for whichever party offers the most 'free stuff' since if you have no 'skin in the game' the cost will not affect you. The way this is going universal suffrage will take us all down.

We all know about the Boston Tea Party and 'no taxation without representation', well that works both ways. Perhaps the vote should go only to those who pay tax (or have done so if they are retired), that way people will think long and hard before voting for more and more taxation. They will certainly put a stop to vanity projects.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby Richard » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:52 am

Firstly I would demand that people who are unable to pass a basic intelligence test or a standardized general knowledge test, should be excluded from voting. Why should profoundly uninformed voters play any part in being in charge of a country?
People who, for instance, can’t name the current prime minister, shouldn’t be allowed to vote for the next one.
Secondly, all eligible voters should be required by Law to vote, with exceptions as deemed sensible.

The current election is a 'tug-of-war' between those who believes public services or Brexit are the most important issues and I may exclude myself from voting on the basis that I am uncertain who or what to believe! Or who can achieve their 'Holy Grail'.
You choose, Brexit 'to go' or public services to grow?

User avatar
ColinL
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby ColinL » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:55 am

The 'free stuff' slogan has been well and truly debunked I really don't know why you bother.

Lets have your reliable stats to support this bizarre claim;

"When you get to the stage where a majority of voters take more out of the pot than they put in then the country is obviously headed into a downward spiral of debt and higher and higher taxation

We 'take out' not in the majority of cases a sum of cash, we use the roads, we have the services of the police and fire brigades, we have the services of street cleaning, public libraries and swimming pools. We have planning authorities and Environmental Health services to ensure that restaurants are safe and clean, that youngsters cannot purchase harmful substances. Services for disabled people who need some assistance with every day life. (Tanni Grey Thompson world class athlete)

The list goes on. It is not 'free stuff'

Make sure that the Tory candidate Sally Ann Hart with her divisive theory that people with disabilities don't understand money and should be paid less does not get elected to spread her bizarre and potentially racists views.

northants1066
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 5:26 pm

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby northants1066 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:02 pm

We all know about the Boston Tea Party and 'no taxation without representation', well that works both ways. Perhaps the vote should go only to those who pay tax (or have done so if they are retired), that way people will think long and hard before voting for more and more taxation. They will certainly put a stop to vanity projects.[/quote

I am retired and still pay tax. You only have to have an income exceeding £12.5 k to be a taxpayer.

cbe
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby cbe » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:34 pm

northants - I agree entirely - I too am retired and I too pay tax but I included 'retired people'
because some do not pay tax now but they have done all of their working lives.

colin - As regards Sally Ann Hart - I know someone who was at the hustings. That quote was taken completely out of context - quelle surprise !!!! Whilst I mention that - there were hordes of momentum people there who had been bussed in and shouted down everyone - except the Labour candidate - Chowden(?) - again quelle surprise. As regards free stuff - Corbyn never opens his mouth without offering more - you never seem to touch on the endless benefits bill which keeps being increased without a thought as to those who will foot the bill. You can rest assured it will not be those shouting the loudest for it - see the title of this thread. Colin rest yourself - disappontment is coming.

User avatar
Derek Jempson
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:56 am

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby Derek Jempson » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:02 pm

What about those who have been severely physically disabled from birth and have therefore never worked, nor paid tax, should they lose the vote under your scheme?

cbe
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby cbe » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:22 pm

Of course not - that would be ridiculous and the kind of comment I would expect from Colin.

User avatar
Derek Jempson
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:56 am

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby Derek Jempson » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:34 pm

But in your original post you said:

When you get to the stage where a majority of voters take more out of the pot than they put in then the country is obviously headed into a downward spiral of debt and higher and higher taxation


Severely disabled people take more out of the pot than they put in, so presumably, you would exclude them. Your proposal is dangerous and unworkable. Where would it end?

cbe
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby cbe » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:52 pm

My apologies for not making myself clear - my comments are obviously regarding fit people of working age who either do not work or do not pay tax. This is not in itself a slur on everyone not paying tax it is merely an observation that if you put little or nothing 'into the pot' you might not mind voting for more and more free stuff to come out of it.
Wherever you set the bar on various benefits there will be some people 'who just miss out' and then every time that bar moves upwards (other than for inflation) it catches more and more people just missing out. Therefore more and more people are dis-incentivized from working. Eventually there is a smaller and smaller batch of people paying the tax that others have voted onto them. I can see on re-reading this that I am probably making it even more difficult to follow what I'm saying - but I'll leave it there.

User avatar
Derek Jempson
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:56 am

Re: Universal suffrage

Postby Derek Jempson » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:21 pm

That's fine, I can understand your argument, but people have died in the fight to gain universal suffrage. We can't throw it away - everyone must be able to vote regardless of who or what they are (apart from the usual legal exclusions).


Return to “Non-Hastings Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests