Labour - a rethink

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:57 pm

The Labour Party is a socialist party. It says so on the membership card. It is and has been an inclusive group from right to left (within progressive range) (Gaitskill to Wilson and Castle, Lansbury to Henderson) from its foundation. It is not for Seahermit to pontificate about changing of the party. If you want a different non Labour Party there are choices out there

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:05 pm

seahermit thought you might like this about false bullying by Momentum.

Not often that Jewish Chronicle apologises for anything.
"Last month, the newspaper was forced by the press regulator IPSO to issue a correction after it could not substantiate claims made in an article about alleged bullying of Jewish MP Louise Ellman, then with Labour, in Liverpool by a party activist.

The regulator concluded the Jewish Chronicle “had not been able to demonstrate that it had taken care over the accuracy of the article” on certain points, and its conduct during the subsequent investigation had been “unacceptable”.

A few months ago they had to pay £50k damages for false allegations against a charity that they labelled as terrorists. Like you it seems they hope mud sticks

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seahermit
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby seahermit » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:00 am

Three long rants in a row, I seem to have been added to Colin's list of hate-figures! I am not sure what he thinks he is achieving in going for me personally, many of my criticisms have been made (and are still being made) by others, in the media and even by Labour party members themselves and those critics are not going to suddenly go away.

If some people like Colin are squealing in rage, then it probably means that I am getting some things right and hitting sensitive areas. The Labour party has a lot to be ashamed about currently and that is one of the reasons it lost the election. Colin can shout about unjust it is or how wrong I am - he can't alter the mathematics of an 80-seat majority. Painful for him but the reality.

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seahermit
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby seahermit » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:35 am

As one or two others have said also, I slept well on the night of the 13th/14th! I suppose I do feel a little sympathy for the Labour party, which has had it's great and honourable leaders, but sadly has very much lost its way.

For now, the country's destiny is much safer and there should also be more stability, albeit because of a lessening of vicious inter-party squabbling.

Any danger will come from the rabid left-wingers who just cannot abide being contradicted by opponents (no names!) and who either are tempted into some form of "direct action" or atleast condone it. But I don't think there will be the riots etc. we have seen before, the country has moved on, the election revealed the mood of the people and there is likely to be much less tolerance for illegal/undemocratic behaviour. The election result, nicely democratic, was after all a sigh of tiredness at all the tricks and ploys of the last three years

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:15 am

Rant. Definition according to a seahermit.
A comment written in moderate language, giving supporting evidence for assertions made, that they violently disagrees with but is unable to challenge with logical argument. They therefore have to resort to criticism of the person rather than the subject.

cbe
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby cbe » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:38 am

He singles you out often seahermit because you bite back, I treat his barbs as an irritation.
He seems unduly exercised by the Jewish bit and yet Ms Berger left The Labour Party because of its anti-semitism not because there were some right wing oddballs in the country. Add to that the fact that several other Jewish 'names' from the Party have said the same thing.

cbe
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby cbe » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:27 am

What socialists can't seem to get their heads around is that socialism's destination is ALWAYS Venezuela.

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seahermit
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby seahermit » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:43 pm

Amongst other things, I have now been accused of being a fraud, of stirring hate, throwing mud and hoping that it sticks, pontificating about the Labour party, being hysterical ..! Am I wrong or does that sort of language sound like the words of extreme, intolerant and indignant left-wingers? Or crackpots like Colin?

I never thought that my opinions would have much in common with Tony Blair's but there you go. I couldn't manage to quote some of his text but it was very apposite and echoed by numerous others of the saner, more moderate Labour members. "Fantasy island", a manifesto which sounded like a prolonged left-wing protest, and a left-wing stance of a kind which has never been accepted by the electorate and never will. Worth reading, it was on the MSN news site.

The agonising within the Labour party is painful for them and painful for outsiders to watch, but it has to be gone through, otherwise it is hard to see how Labour will ever be taken seriously again.

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Richard
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby Richard » Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:53 pm

Labour seemingly lost the election because Labour' own m.p.'s, who represented Labour heartlands, nevertheless thwarted the attempts at Brexit in the house of commons, many times.
Also Jermey Corbyn could not deliver a clear message on where he stood on Brexit, despite the referendum, out of alignment with the clear wishes of Labour voters in the heartlands and so he suffered the consequences.
A car-crash in slow motion unraveled before our eyes and Jeremy Corbyn tried instead to turn the argument away from Brexit and towards the issue of public services which were secondary.
Plus, of course, he was seen to be slow to implement the wishes of traditional voters of the Jewish faith with platitudes and unconvincing statements about not tolerating anti-semitism.
Boris was more in tune with the wishes of the electorate and therefore won convincingly.

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:03 pm

Seahermit a whole range of your posts indicate disdain at best or hate at worst against a range of individuals and groups from those seeking a place of safety, to so-called benefit scroungers in their many thousands, Trade Unionists, "do gooders" to name but a few. It is reasonable to suggest that you hate.

I feel sorrow for you that life seems to be a burden of all these things sent to annoy you. Children don't hate and don't see difference of colour, language, disability. Give them some bricks or a ball and they will play albeit they may squabble but not on basis of difference.

Adults teach children and our youth to hate and to signify difference and feel that they are unfairly treated by the 'other', be they refugees, people of colour coming to keep our health service going, or internationally renowned academics bringing expertise to our Universities. Yes I feel quite sad for you
Last edited by ColinL on Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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