Labour - a rethink

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:19 pm

Richard, you mention traditional Labour voters of the Jewish faith deserting Labour due to inability to deal with antisemitism. The % of the Jewish population voting Labour has been falling for years amongst the new middle class on some of the north London pockets. The working class have largely remained with Labour.

In 2014/15 the Jewish Chronicle ran stories about Jewish Labour leader
Miliband' having lost the Jewish vote', and of the 'crisis of antisemitism'
That was directly after he declared for Palestinian independence. The crisis disappeared when he stalled on Middle East policy. Certain conservative (small and capital C) sectors wanted change of Labour policy, they were not interested in disciplinary changes unless it resulted in mass expulsions of those who challenged the manner in which Israel treated Palestinians, including all the leadership team.
I have posted this before but it is worthwhile repeating it to counter misconceptions of the issue.

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seahermit
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby seahermit » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:27 am

I have to say that the increasingly personal and rather repellent attacks on me from Colin are getting a bit crazy, no? "Disdain or hate towards a range of individuals and groups from those seeking a place of safety, benefit scroungers, trade unionists, do-gooders", then suggesting prejudice on my part towards people of colour etc. etc.! Wouldn't it be simpler for Colin to just allege that I hate EVERYONE?!

This is all because I dared to criticise the current Labour party policies and to refute the nonsensical statements which Colin keeps coming out with - which seems to send him into a frenzy. Few of the groups he refers to have ever been commented on by me, some things said in passing and lifted by Colin right out of context.

After having a jolly good bash at me, Colin then says that he "feels quite sad for me" - Ha ha! That IS funny!

Joking aside, this seems uncomfortably like the sort of antics which extreme left-wingers have been accused of - twist the truth, add some smears and insinuations and, with a bit of luck and if you say it often enough, some people will believe it. Fortunately in Hastings - Colin doesn't even live here - I am known by hundreds of people who all know what sort of person I am and would not have much patience with someone as odd as Colin.

I am aware that I have been a little plain-spoken but the situation demands it. This could be an interesting and enjoyable forum thread but the repellant focussing by Colin onto myself, instead of the political issues which people are trying to discuss, is spoiling it for everyone.

cbe
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby cbe » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:08 am

Don't rise to ad hominem attacks seahermit. Colin is the Socialist's socialist and what you read from him explains his philosophy in a nutshell. Some of what he accuses you of is from his fevered mind - bear in mind last Thursday night Colin met up with the truth. In addition he sometimes mixes up what you have said with what I have said - he is thrashing around knowing that he will never again live under a Labour government. For me that is a relief, for Colin it's like the sky has fallen in.

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seahermit
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby seahermit » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:53 pm

Thank you, CBE, I appreciate that. Yes I have noticed that Colin gets confused and attributes remarks to the wrong poster!

I know nothing about him, bar the ardent socialist's extreme anger, frustration and desire to hit out which his posts reveal, so I have nothing against him personally.

I am merely interested in the political situation, since it affects us all, but also I suppose I have little patience with cant, hypocrisy and misrepresentation of truth. No matter where it comes from, Left or Right, though I suspect you might point your finger more in one particular direction currently!

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:12 am

Seahermit, in your most recent posts you have complained about "the increasingly personal and rather repellant" comments I am said to have directed towards you, and that I am 'getting crazy"

I thought it useful for readers to see some of your comments about me to assess if I have written anything comparable.
"rants", "barrack room lawyer", "I am sure you are right, after all you are right about absoutely everything, as you are proudly aware", "by Colin's billious outpouring of contempt" "crackpots like Colin". Those comments might be reasonable if they directly apply to anything identified, but they are just stand alone comments without any attempt at justification.

There is nothing comparable in my comments. I have however made reference to specific things you have written and then applied them to descriptors, such as 'contempt to hate', for the purpose of explanation. I have not written a whole post that only contains personal insult. That is not a standard of conduct I use.

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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:29 am

cbe. You suggest that I have used ad hominem towards the seahermit but I am not sure that you understand what it means. It is when a person avoids actually debating an issue in question, and purely resorts to picking on a perceived personal attribute of the other side in order to discredit their worth, and not what they have said. A very common one used by those on the right of politics (and I am sure I have seen it on here), such as ,"you are just a student and will grow out of it", or "you are just a scrounger and would think differently if you got a job", "you need your head examined".

If I make an observation, it will be in relation to what has been said and I will apply it, and not a stand alone criticism that cannot be applied. In any event I don't resort to such comments as have been made against me.

cbe
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby cbe » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:57 pm

Colin - a period of reflection on your part would do you good.

cbe
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby cbe » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:20 pm

I see that the news that David Lammy is standing for the Labour leadership has been warmly welcomed (first time I've tried a GIF on here - apologies if it doesn't work)

cbe
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby cbe » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:21 pm

one last try
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ColinL
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Re: Labour - a rethink

Postby ColinL » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:53 pm

Cbe, a period of absence on your part might benefit if you have nothing to rebut facts, but just to assert your view is correct and to put up cartoons of little (in my opinion) merit.


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