Corbyn NEVER lets you down

If it's not Hastings related post it here! Politics, religion, whatever you like!
User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby seahermit » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:17 am

Richard, my reference to "Labour's policies being completely unacceptable" etc. was of course an exaggeration - in order to make a point. But there seems general agreement (from the comments above) that Labour's election promises were seen by many as impracticable, unaffordable and not! believable. Except by the Colins amongst the left-wingers, to whom the reality of the situation is painful to face up to.

My continuing concern is that many of the contenders for the Labour leadership are still from the Old Guard, previously loyal to Corbyn - some now desperately backtracking and trying to distance themselves, "they didn't REALLY go along with all the manifesto pledges" etc. Absolutely no change of mindset, no humility nor attempt to get back into tune with traditional working-class Labour voters. Labour seems doomed to a prolonged period of being on the fringes of politics. Brought it on themselves.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby Richard » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:53 pm

seahermit, wasn't the general election really more about Brexit?
If that had not been clouding the issue(s) we might have seen a rather different outcome.
Some of the Tory Party elite have very little understanding about how ordinary working class people have to live and that is okay to some extent but it only takes a new Labour leader to be seen to be keeping the militant grass roots 'momentum' at bay and pushing for social progress, for the balance to change.
Witness Tony Blair.
cbe decries the Left for wanting to spend some of the money earned by the Tories but I think we are all in the same boat and just want people to meaningful work rather than find excuses for avoiding it. Or suggest that even when or where they work is basically a matter of sponging off others.

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 709
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby seahermit » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:39 pm

Well, of course Brexit was a major issue in people's minds, but as far as I can tell from talking to others, other concerns were equally present. People seemed to react very badly to Corbyn's personality and to his left-wing politics. And, whilst there was sympathy with some of the manifesto aims (I myself went along to some extent with partial re-nationalisation of the rail network and with abandoning the repressive Universal Credit), the expansive and reckless way in which the Labour Party presented their proposals lacked credibility.

All past history now. We have to deal with the situation as it is. I'm not sure that Blair is a good example to hold up. At first, the assumption was that he meant well and was relatively altruistic - but many of his promises did not materialise, he proved himself to be a very flawed and superficial character and of course he made some very bad errors of judgement. A Blair-like figure who is NOT a snake-charmer would be good - from whence will he emerge?!

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby Richard » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:51 pm

I am not sure that Universal Credit is as bad as all that, in the scheme of things
The previous scheme called Income Support was just under £80 per week per recipient, the means of administering it was simplified under Universal Credit and the proof of searching for work (Job Search) was eased, with no need to show proof of numerous job-application letters.
The staff are more relaxed as they are not beset with people screaming at them for money as it is all done online.
Universal Credit has not affected the sum of dole, which is still pretty low, much as before - sub £80/week.

User avatar
ColinL
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby ColinL » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 pm

Richard "Claimants of UC who are members of a family unit situation and are employed face very complicated calculations for their benfit assessment. It has led to many delays and underpayments. If a person has a council or a housing association tenancy, they report tyat arrears have increased since the system was introduced and it causes cash flow problems for them.

It is only possible to speak to someone about issues by telephone and that causes frustration to applicants and local DWP staff who face the frustration of claimants who often go to the Job Centre to speak to someone for help. The situation for the single unemployed is much easier. Have a look at the two Ken Loach films based on Tyneside for an alternative view of surviving on UC.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby Richard » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:11 am

Rent arrears also existed under the Housing Benefit regime and many clients transfer to UC with existing arrears - further complicating the picture.
It is very sad and must be soul-destroying to start to raise a family and find yourself out of work and reliant on the State for everything.
Ken Loach believed Corbyn was the answer and even made campaign video's for him.

cbe
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby cbe » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:42 am

If Ken Loach is the answer - what the hell must the question have been?

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2905
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby Richard » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:02 pm

That's a non sequitur!

cbe
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby cbe » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:17 pm

It's also an old joke -get a grip Richard

User avatar
ColinL
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm

Re: Corbyn NEVER lets you down

Postby ColinL » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:08 pm

I would imagine that most people don't want to rely on the state for everything. People don't like to be made redundant; to have their hours reduced; or to be reliant on two or three jobs in order to survive. Without doubt rent arrears have always existed I have dealt with such issues but social/council house providers report increases of 30 -40 % over previously managed levels- and importantly that tenants who did not have arrears now do so.

cbe,as usual changes a simple straightforward issue to a joke and thus ignores the issue entirely.
So much for adult debate and honesty

Just today the govt announced how many people had finally been changed from one disability benefit to another, after their death. If one benefit is being abolished claimants should not have to wait weeks or months for the new money to come through. Try arguing that problem from the govt point of view. You seem sympathetic to them whilst dismissive of the disabled.


Return to “Non-Hastings Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests