EU Elections

Chat about anything local that doesn't fit elsewhere!
cbe
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Re: EU Elections

Postby cbe » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:33 pm

Obama didn't only 'urge' us to remain as part of the EU he issued the threat that if we left we would be 'at the back of the queue' for a deal with the USA. What made his unwanted intervention even worse was that it came about from a direct request by our hapless PM David Cameron. As Rochard points out we have had regular interventions from other 'leaders' Juncker, Tusk, Barnier and Verhofstadt. They have not merely been expressing their EU view but actually insulting Brexit voters.
As regards Donald Trump - he is the perfect President for the US. Look at the figures, economy, trade, jobs. He is a breath of fresh air which would not go amiss in the UK. Career politicians spending their lives at the trough have done this country down and the US was going that way during the unfortunate tenure of Barack Hussein Obama.

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Richard
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Re: EU Elections

Postby Richard » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:55 am

Not sure about the claims of being fed chlorinated chicken if we get a trade deal with America once we come out.
Or the idea of privatisation of NHS services, are they just scare tactics or a reality?

cbe
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Re: EU Elections

Postby cbe » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:14 pm

I saw the American ambassador saying that if their chicken was allowed into our markets it would be the consumer's choice whether they bought it or not. He went on to say that the US gets about 5 million British visitors a year and that many of then will eat chicken during their stay. He said he could not ever remember anyone complaining.
As regards NHS/privatisation/USA there are bound to be scare tactics. As far as I am \aware 'our' NHS buys a lot of materials from the US already and so in that sense they already have access to the NHS. I remember when Mr Brown started with the PFI deals in the NHS very little was heard from 'the usual quarters' about privatisation but in essence that is what it was. Many, many millions comes out of the NHS budget every year to pay interest on those Labour-inspired deals.
But it is only American involvement that is deemed bad.

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Richard
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Re: EU Elections

Postby Richard » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:57 pm

cbe,

It is true that Tony Blair arranged public/private partnerships with the NHS that cost many, many times more than was necessary under normal market forces. For example the building of new hospitals.
I am not sure of the rationale behind all this but if Labour had just borrowed the money it would (seemingly) have been many orders of magnitude cheaper.
We heard no complaints then about such enormously costly arrangements and that it amounted to back-door privatisation, which it surely was.
Additionally there have been hundreds of billions worth of private company money pumped into supporting 'contracted out' NHS services in more recent times, at least since 2013.
Patient transport, diagnostics, mental health, pharmaceuticals all won by non-NHS contracts.
Labour like to hold the cherished NHS as above outside interference or privatisation but the facts show the truth to be somewhat different and so I agree, the idea of U.S. business capturing contracts and somehow damaging the NHS, is something of a false concern.
Electronics, logistic and all manner of back-door services are already well and truly managed by private companies.

The NHS is far too large to be managed by public sector companies alone and unless or until people come to terms with the reality of all this we will remain in the realms of ideologist propaganda.
Of course if the companies providing private contract work are seen to be failing in their duty to provide quality support (contract failures) then they can have their contracts annulled and the services brought back under public sector control.

cbe
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Re: EU Elections

Postby cbe » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:02 am

The reasons for Labour's PFI initiatives were simple. Massive investment in 'our' NHS and the kudos that goes with that but you the finance has come from elsewhere and does not therefore appear on the UK's balance sheet as capital expenditure. It was hire-purchase writ large.

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Richard
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Re: EU Elections

Postby Richard » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:30 am

The PFI initiative was begun under J. Major, to bring private sector discipline to public-sector projects whose costs typically spiraled out of control.
Along came Blair who rigged the rules so that well-run public alternatives could not compete, especially in education and health. PFI was the only game in town because the debt used to finance the infrastructure was classified as a private sector liability and kept off the government’s books.

I remember a scene from Monty Pythons where administration/management in a hospital is explained in modern accounting terms of a dodgy nature...
The same monkey-business goes on inside large governmental organisations.

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Richard
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Re: EU Elections

Postby Richard » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:35 pm

Back to Brexit:

The leadership contest and replacement of T. May, along with responses of how the candidates would steer Brexit to a successful conclusion, doesn't give me much confidence.
Making a new deal by 31st October will be impossible, Brussels will not re-negotiate the Irish backstop issue in any case.
Brexiteers (of whom I am one) cannot relish a no-deal Brexit if it involves going back to border controls with a dangerous flash-point likely to erupt if any physical barriers are put back in place.

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seahermit
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Re: EU Elections

Postby seahermit » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:31 am

Hardly surprising that nobody can find more to say about the Brexit business - how does one make sense of it all?! I have given up trying to follow the complexities as reported in the media and the apparent impossibility of any MPs getting together and agreeing some sort of workable solution. Let alone one which will be accepted by the EU.

Was there ever such a chaotic period in UK politics? I suppose there must have been, but it seems to me that the current lot of MPs are particularly irresponsible and unsuitable for office. Personal ambitions, rivalries and factional disputes seem to be the main drivers, certainly not implementing the electorate's declared wishes or doing what is best for the country.

After the TV news programmes have dealt with Brexit and then the vicious squabbles between the Tory leadership contenders, the rest of the bulletin is always filled with civil war in Lybia, bombing in Syria, anarchy in various states in Africa, desperate migrations Westwards by populations trying to escape it all ..

Richard said people in Hastings were depressed .. people in the UK are depressed!! We proles have little real control over the political and business forces which seem to be dominating our lives at present, even less we can do of course (at least individually) about all the wars and misery abroad.

What are the chances of some great new leader emerging in the UK with some visionary ideas to cheer us all up and make us feel the country has some direction again?

Failing that, at least my patio plants are doing well and for once I managed to finish the Times prize crossword on Saturday. You gotta have some things to make you feel good ..!

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Richard
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Re: EU Elections

Postby Richard » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:09 pm

Opposition MPs have today lost a critical vote (introduced by Corbyn) on a bid to prevent a future Tory prime minister from forcing through a no-deal Brexit.
MPs rejected the cross-party effort by 309 votes to 298, in a blow to hopes of preventing a Brexiteer prime minister from taking the UK out of the EU without a deal in October.

A narrow win for no-deal Brexit but it should make the EU bureaucrats sit up and take notice.

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seahermit
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Re: EU Elections

Postby seahermit » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:09 am

Thanks Richard, I would have missed that! But now read about it on the BBC website - still confused by all the complicated waffle about what may or may or not happen in Parliament. Or maybe my mind is just fed up with it and is glazing over ..

I think Brexit should take place, deal or otherwise. Of course there will be some temporary disruption - that is inevitable whatever circumstances apply in October. There is a whole future in which to formulate new economic, trading and judicial agreements with the EU. Other countries will still want to trade with Britain, they will find ways.


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