Circle in Cambridge Gardens

[Richard]

Richard, the project must surely look like massive 'overkill' to the man in the street.
In history has there ever been a huge flow-rate from exceptional storms that have flooded the lower reaches of Priory valley? Or is it more a case of the more recent shopping centre and urbanisation needing higher levels of protection, coupled with developments further up the valley resulting in increased discharge during storms?
Or. even Global Warming knock-on flooding.
Either way, storm protection is certainly very welcome, just hope there are some 'fail-safe' mechanisms to prevent the water-flow blocking by unforseen chance events at just the wrong time!!
Can you say why there still has to be the iron-pipe at Pelham beach if there is a massive conduit, going begging?
Probably the water course does not allow an easy de-coupling / integration?

I think the geology is interesting - i.e. what rocks do the tunnel rest on? Presumably clay, but there must have been chalk in the area (Whiterock?) or else limestone was imported into Hastings, as there are documented accounts of lime-kilns at Whiterock and elsewhere.
Your narrative mentioned a limestone band, I remember.
It would be useful for me to set up a scale-model, covering the Hastings area, showing the land-form topography of hills and valleys with snap-shots of the geology/geomorphology.

Many thanks!!

[Richard Pollard]

Richard. The main reasons as to why Southern Water went to all this expense in installing a massive pipe underground was two fold:- First the Central Cricket ground flooded every time it rained hard, and more over the towns drains backed up in many areas causing not only water to seep through peoples property etc, but the bad smells that followed with the water!
The 7M diameter tunnel under Hastings Main was designed to flood and hold back millions of gallons of water that could be controlled from the pumping station at Western Road St Leonards (otherwise known as Coombs old garage), and then discharged into the sea as and when; well that was the theory!! A few weeks after the whole scheme was completed and all the workers had gone onto another project some where, the rains came down so heavy that the tunnel filled itself to capacity within a very short space of time, as water was also directed here from higher points in the town. But unfortunately, the pumps and valve computerisation system at Western Road failed to operate (told unofficially that it had not been fully commissioned!) and water built up to such a level that the filtration plant mounted on top of the Alexandra Park shaft became flooded in itself making the whole system totally inoperative, consequently flooding started all over the town again until someone realised what had happened by remote alarm, and to get the duty person to Western Road and start the machinery going manually, but alas this was all too late as thousands of pounds worth of filtration plant had been ruined, and electric motors were also rendered useless as well.
So all in all this was a good scheme that started off very badly. And Marks & spencers still suffer to this day with water ingress under the premises and a sinking feeling, but that's yet another story.

[Richard]

Thanks Richard,

"The best laid plans..."
Still, on other levels, it seems like a big and poorly-thought-out sledgehammer to crack a nut to my mind.
The Cricket ground (as such) is no more and if M&S (below a huge multi-story car Park) are suffering subsidence and water-ingress there may well be other issues at play!!
The whole area was a meadow and allegedly beset with drainage problems, going a long way back in time, which the, fairly recent, drainage (Water-Board) scheme was intended to resolve??
Drainage problems compounded by the proximity of the sea.
There must be surely some effect from the sea-tides pushing up into the 'meadow' areas.
So, are we just fighting the effect of tides and the weight of recent architectural loading by removing a fairly innocuous load from runoff higher up?
Interesting stuff!!

[Richard Pollard]

Richard
Yes the poor old Prior Meadow will suffer until eternity it seems as most of the water that caused the flooding on the cricket ground came from Alexandra Park streams, which when it rained hard the streams had no where else to go other than down hill towards the Memorial, and rightly stated that if the tide was in the water flooded the chambers under the town centre (named as the frying pan!) why! because there were two levels under ground. This was all removed in the up grading of the water courses when they carried out this wonderful no flooding scheme! Now, the other problem was when the tide was high, yes it back tracked through the system and low and behold stopped water that had already built up behind it to build up even further, so to that problem a non reversing flap valve which would seal itself against a back pressure was fitted to the outfall pipe hoping to alleviate this problem of backwash (that's what SW called it!), so far that particular scheme seemed to work, but the stream from the park was never properly culverted before the base of the shops were laid, hence to why there are 2 massive pumps installed under the centre to try and keep the water at bay. A lot of people have no idea that the centre floods well when it rains and 2 big pumps are under their feet working to alleviate further flooding.
These pumps were set in a deep chamber under what was the phone shop just as you exit the centre to the Kings Square.
When you exit the centre to the Kings Square, exit by the side door and about 3 paces to your left on the ground you will notice some man hole covers, this is the access to the pump chamber. It's quite funny really, as when they were building the centre this area was boarded up so that no one could see what was going on behind the screens. And even to this day if maintenance has to be carried out there, again hoarding is placed around the site.
The 2 pumps work in rotation, duty one pump runs in service for a specific time then it changes over to pump 2 and so on, that's until the pumps stop altogether!! then the chamber floods as it did some years ago rendering the pumps absolutely useless, whereby the entire set was replaced at great cost all because someone had turned the master switch OFF!!
I do think that perhaps I had better stop here as I am probably only one of the select few that knew about these pumps!!
Until the next time!!!

[Richard]

Richard - Thanks for your very interesting and educational accounts.
I think you could write a book on the drainage-problems of coastal towns.
I suspect the fact that older sewerage systems were built to accommodate surface water runoff as well as sewerage proper, may be part the picture you paint, which I am still struggling to comprehend fully.
To recap, there are still some older sewerage-systems in Hastings, vulnerable to overflow/contamination from storm-flooding, which when combined with sea-tides entering via a series of highly porous (sand and shingle) hydro-geology, will add up to a heady 'cocktail'.
The toilets always seem to stink in M&S anyway (not nice right next to food counters) but they say they have tried to sort it out many times and now just blame the customers!!

[Richard Pollard]

Richard - I do believe that the complete answer to M&S toilet smells come from below and as stated in earlier responses, that there is constant movement in the ground all due to the fact that the foundations were poorly laid in the first place, especially with all that added weight of the car park on top. There have been many occasions when pipes laid under the suspended floor in their shop and food hall have fractured due to movement in the ground. They, (the maintenance team that is) were getting a little fed up in keep repairing the leaks in pipes etc under the floors, so they have now fitted all over the centre flexible bellow elbows and expansion joints not only to the water and refrigeration side of things but the fire dry rises also as every time they fractured air got in and set the fire alarms going.
I have no doubt what-so-ever that M&S are suffering fractured pipes underneath the toilet block, mind you it couldn't be in a worse place than that corner as that's where the most damage is caused by water ingress, that will remain there for all times unless someone spends money on a camera job!
Having said that, not that I have ever visited the toilets in Harold Place, they say that they smell awful too at times, this I can put down to the variety of people that visit these and not only for the prime purpose of what they were designed for???
If it's of any interest to you or others reading this thread, Station Road behind the centre smells dreadful in the hot weather with pungent smells being omitted from the chambers in the roadway through the lifting eye holes, this I put down to stagnant water sitting in the chambers all due to the fact that insufficient water passes through to flush the old water away, or they are dry!
What a lovely subject, who got me on to this??? Mind you I could go on for days........But I won't!
http://richardpollard.co.uk/as-promised ... -hastings/