I hold no remit for the MSM but I do not say that everything they say is 'fake news' but most of what they say bears their own slant....news is news...report it factually.
As regards Corbyn I think he is being tarred very fairly with the anti-semitism brush. You only have to look at statements that have been made by some Labour MPs/councillors/officials, which are clearly anti-semitic and then wonder why they are still in Mr Corbyn's party?
You cannot say that someone is being treated unfairly (JC in this case) and then ignore the very clear and obvious reasons for that treatment.
Hastings Forum
Vikings
Re: Vikings
RE- MSM news coverage, Channel 4 news is very good at aiming the lens to focus on minority groups who seem to have had a rough deal, often meted out by whatever government policy happens to be in place and revels in being seen to tackle the injustice head-on.
In that sense they are currently perceived to be left-leaning and perhaps wanting to bolster their importance and be seen as 'caring' for the less privileged.
The recent 'Wind Rush' scandal is a good example.
Immigration numbers were targeted, and a knee-jerk edict, requiring proof of citizenship, has had disastrous consequences, or so it is alleged.
The government of the day is shown as uncaring and unable to think through recent attempts aimed at reducing perceived, or actual, illegal immigration.
The media, then, highlight problems and holds government to account, that is all fair and square and they are just doing their job.
Now, naturally enough, the EU has jumped on the bandwagon and raised concerns, regarding the treatment of 'foreign' workers who have been contributing in this country for a number of years.
Immigration and eventual citizenship rights issues have to be tackled somehow but we seem to be failing in the process of sensible decision-making.
In that sense they are currently perceived to be left-leaning and perhaps wanting to bolster their importance and be seen as 'caring' for the less privileged.
The recent 'Wind Rush' scandal is a good example.
Immigration numbers were targeted, and a knee-jerk edict, requiring proof of citizenship, has had disastrous consequences, or so it is alleged.
The government of the day is shown as uncaring and unable to think through recent attempts aimed at reducing perceived, or actual, illegal immigration.
The media, then, highlight problems and holds government to account, that is all fair and square and they are just doing their job.
Now, naturally enough, the EU has jumped on the bandwagon and raised concerns, regarding the treatment of 'foreign' workers who have been contributing in this country for a number of years.
Immigration and eventual citizenship rights issues have to be tackled somehow but we seem to be failing in the process of sensible decision-making.
Re: Vikings
I will leave the subject here Richard as I cannot tell from your post exactly which tack you are taking. Anyway - we have (probably my fault) moved some little way from 'Vikings'
Re: Vikings
The tack that I am taking is that immigration has always been a major concern throughout our long history, despite the undoubted contribution from a variety of sources.
Even the Anglo-Saxons were of Germanic tribal origin.
Where does this great fear of immigration then come from?
That was the enduring question I raised but I am happy to let it remain dormant.
Even the Anglo-Saxons were of Germanic tribal origin.
Where does this great fear of immigration then come from?
That was the enduring question I raised but I am happy to let it remain dormant.
Re: Vikings
The tack Richard is taking is referred to as "Rambling" - like the real thing, the path wanders all over the place and sometimes ends up in the middle of nowhere!
I am astonished that the Anglo-Saxons were of Germanic origin , thought they were Polynesian. Just joking ..!
I am astonished that the Anglo-Saxons were of Germanic origin , thought they were Polynesian. Just joking ..!
Re: Vikings
Just lost the start of my post somewhere (I am not very good with the 'puter) so will start again...since you talk of immigation and wonder 'where does this great fear come from?'..
I will rejoin the chat. Could it be that people are concerned that 'OUR' NHS is reportedly at breaking point? Interesting point on this if I can link this to Fake News - when did you last see anything in the MSM about the NHS being overburdened by the hundreds of thousands of immigrants entering the country every year? I'll tell you Richard - never !
Maybe people are concerned at the lack of property to rent or buy....I wonder whether these hundreds of thousands per year of EXTRA residents could be affecting that? Again when did you see anything within the MSM alluding to that being a reason for the housing shortage? Do I need to answer that one? I'll just leave it at housing and the NHS but there are many obvious and clear reasons why people object to immigration.
I will rejoin the chat. Could it be that people are concerned that 'OUR' NHS is reportedly at breaking point? Interesting point on this if I can link this to Fake News - when did you last see anything in the MSM about the NHS being overburdened by the hundreds of thousands of immigrants entering the country every year? I'll tell you Richard - never !
Maybe people are concerned at the lack of property to rent or buy....I wonder whether these hundreds of thousands per year of EXTRA residents could be affecting that? Again when did you see anything within the MSM alluding to that being a reason for the housing shortage? Do I need to answer that one? I'll just leave it at housing and the NHS but there are many obvious and clear reasons why people object to immigration.
Re: Vikings
I agree with that, just common sense of course. There has never been a "great fear of immigration" - some suspicion and resentment at times because of the traditional British attitude towards weird foreigners. But in the long run most newcomers have been absorbed into the national population and the UK has remained a largely welcoming and tolerant place.
The big difference in recent years has been the sheer volume of immigrants from all parts of the globe and the uncontrolled nature of that influx. As Cbe says, it has inevitably put enormous strain on the NHS, on social services, on housing, on the benefit system, on employment and also changed the nature of our society.
We have had a period of years of weak and ineffectual politicians on left and right sides of the spectrum, who have ignored the views and wishes of the general population. One big driver forr the Brexit vote was that people saw an opportunity atlast to express their real wishes and actually change the direction tbe country was going in.
The big difference in recent years has been the sheer volume of immigrants from all parts of the globe and the uncontrolled nature of that influx. As Cbe says, it has inevitably put enormous strain on the NHS, on social services, on housing, on the benefit system, on employment and also changed the nature of our society.
We have had a period of years of weak and ineffectual politicians on left and right sides of the spectrum, who have ignored the views and wishes of the general population. One big driver forr the Brexit vote was that people saw an opportunity atlast to express their real wishes and actually change the direction tbe country was going in.
Re: Vikings
Yes seahermit - we are in agreement. The quality of leadership we have had in this country for a very long time is abysmal. I don't know whether that is a reflection on the quality of people who enter politics or whether (tin-foil hat time) everything is going according to some master-plan. If it is I will say that the plan is not in OUR interests.
Re: Vikings
seahermit said:
"The big difference in recent years has been the sheer volume of immigrants from all parts of the globe and the uncontrolled nature of that influx. As Cbe says, it (this) has inevitably put enormous strain on the NHS, on social services, on housing, on the benefit system, on employment and also changed the nature of our society."
While concerns about migration of 'immigrants' need to be listened to, sensationalist media coverage paints a distorted picture of the reality of migration to the UK. From what we eat, to what we wear, to the music we listen to or the healthcare we receive, the UK would not be what it is today without the contribution of immigrants.
Only one-third of immigrants to the UK come from EU countries.
By contrast, 74% of immigrants to Ireland come from EU countries, and 44% of immigrants in Germany are from EU member states.
About two-thirds of immigrants who arrive in the UK already have job offers, while 93% of people claiming welfare payments like job-seeker's allowance or disability benefits are British nationals.
No doubt fears about pressure on healthcare and housing are well-founded but that is surely down to lack of foresight and strategic planning by successive governments..
The NHS is wobbling around on whatever funding constraints the government of the day put in place whereas it should be tackled on a non-partisan basis.
Housing is down to private house-builders and the markets as council homes are no longer built and so we see private landlords stepping in.
In fact there is great dismay when the NHS is seen to be open to private enterprise and the Labour government, despite encouraging public-private partnership under Tony Blair's government, chose to scream about it ever since.
So, housing is firmly in the private sector now and yet the NHS is still used as an 'Aunt Sally' to berate the inability of successive governments to expand in order to meet the needs of a growing population, whether blamed in part on the recent rise in immigration or perhaps not.
"The big difference in recent years has been the sheer volume of immigrants from all parts of the globe and the uncontrolled nature of that influx. As Cbe says, it (this) has inevitably put enormous strain on the NHS, on social services, on housing, on the benefit system, on employment and also changed the nature of our society."
While concerns about migration of 'immigrants' need to be listened to, sensationalist media coverage paints a distorted picture of the reality of migration to the UK. From what we eat, to what we wear, to the music we listen to or the healthcare we receive, the UK would not be what it is today without the contribution of immigrants.
Only one-third of immigrants to the UK come from EU countries.
By contrast, 74% of immigrants to Ireland come from EU countries, and 44% of immigrants in Germany are from EU member states.
About two-thirds of immigrants who arrive in the UK already have job offers, while 93% of people claiming welfare payments like job-seeker's allowance or disability benefits are British nationals.
No doubt fears about pressure on healthcare and housing are well-founded but that is surely down to lack of foresight and strategic planning by successive governments..
The NHS is wobbling around on whatever funding constraints the government of the day put in place whereas it should be tackled on a non-partisan basis.
Housing is down to private house-builders and the markets as council homes are no longer built and so we see private landlords stepping in.
In fact there is great dismay when the NHS is seen to be open to private enterprise and the Labour government, despite encouraging public-private partnership under Tony Blair's government, chose to scream about it ever since.
So, housing is firmly in the private sector now and yet the NHS is still used as an 'Aunt Sally' to berate the inability of successive governments to expand in order to meet the needs of a growing population, whether blamed in part on the recent rise in immigration or perhaps not.
Re: Vikings
Richard - I hate dealing in figures like this (remember our brief exchange on man-made global warming - which I exited as I realised it was a pointless one) there are lies, damned lies and statistics BUT you throw these figures about so I have no choice to to reciprocate.
You say only one third of our immigrants come from the EU whereas the government's figures for the year to Sept 2017 gives the immigration figures of 220K from the EU and 205K non-EU.
I am not interested in immigration levels (and from where) when it concerns Ireland and Germany and so I have ignored those figures as unimportant.
You say about two thirds of immigrants who arrive here already have job offers. The government's figures for the same period as quoted above says that 47% of those arriving from the EU and 22% of those arriving from non-EU countries have job offers. If you extrapolate those percentages for the total figures shown above that would mean about 34/35% have job offers NOT 'about two thirds
These facts (Government supplied so I suppose we could take them with a pinch of salt) ignore illegal immigration obviously, though I think that we can take for granted that those people do NOT have job offers when they travel. Another very important factor that never gets a mention in the Fake News press, nor by you I have to say, is the fact that these people have paid nothing into our benefits systems yet have the same ability to receive 'help'.
You say only one third of our immigrants come from the EU whereas the government's figures for the year to Sept 2017 gives the immigration figures of 220K from the EU and 205K non-EU.
I am not interested in immigration levels (and from where) when it concerns Ireland and Germany and so I have ignored those figures as unimportant.
You say about two thirds of immigrants who arrive here already have job offers. The government's figures for the same period as quoted above says that 47% of those arriving from the EU and 22% of those arriving from non-EU countries have job offers. If you extrapolate those percentages for the total figures shown above that would mean about 34/35% have job offers NOT 'about two thirds
These facts (Government supplied so I suppose we could take them with a pinch of salt) ignore illegal immigration obviously, though I think that we can take for granted that those people do NOT have job offers when they travel. Another very important factor that never gets a mention in the Fake News press, nor by you I have to say, is the fact that these people have paid nothing into our benefits systems yet have the same ability to receive 'help'.
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