Beggars and homeless in streets

[seahermit]

I have mentioned this before .. a perennial issue of course. The numbers of tramps and beggars have increased sharply in the area. And there is a young guy who sleeps in a doorway in St Leonard's, a small community who set up tents in a shelter when night comes, some others who put up tents on the beach after dark. I won't mention locations and I really hope the Council don't harass them, because I have no objection to them living in the way they are forced to do - these are difficult times. As long as they don't cause great inconvenience to others, I don't see a problem.

Besides the usual crop of sad characters, roughly dressed, with "drink" and "drugs" written all over their faces, there are some young girls currently. One with quite a nice, smiley face displays a "homeless" notice and it seems terrible to me that such a person, early in her life, is begging pennies by day and (she tells me) shacking up with different friends etc. at night - presumably moving around a lot and no certainty (nor any family near). (There is of course the element of an old fool feeling sorry for a pretty face in trouble!).

But seriously this all raises several questions. Nobody seems to be going around checking on these unfortunates, talking to them, trying to help. I think there are still some soup kitchens in daytime but I never see e.g. charity people going around with hot drinks etc. after dark (happens up in London more). Does anyone know what organisations are actively working to help people on the streets?⁹

Secondly, I gather that without a fixed address you cannot claim benefits. Does this mean that the beggars saying they are homeless actually get NO financial help at all? Or just some minimum survival amount?

I am very rusty on the whole benefit system but currently it seems iniquitous and repressive - pushes some of my political inclinations sharply in a socialist direction! And, as it has always been, once you are down and out, it is very difficult to pull yourself up again.

I know that trying to get Housing Benefit/LHA is a nightmare with long delays and that people on any benefits are denied anything but the poorest accommodation by landlords. But what about Income Support/JSA (different names now) - how difficult is it to obtain and does it actually give anyone some sort of start with trying to get their life together again?

[Richard]

The following answers some of your questions, seahermit:

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_ ... n_homeless

Additionally, for homeless people in Hastings there are about twenty groups that either help directly or offer advice:

https://www.hastings.gov.uk/content/hou ... reet_Sheet
I have seen groups of helpers who talk to those 'on the streets' offering advice etcetera.

As for claiming Universal Credit (no longer JSA or income support) that is possible online and the following link explains how people without a permanent address, an email or bank account can be assisted:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... anisations

[seahermit]

Thanks Richard, I will have another look at this stuff later when I have time.

But at first glance, your last link to the Government info on Universal Credit: it is immediately obvious why so many people are on the streets and failing to get effective help. The amount of bureaucracy and complicated rules are just unbelievable, I cannot see how anybody with problems or mental problems could possibly cope with all the hoops and obstacles put in place. It is depressing, though unsurprising, and confirms everything I have heard about the way the system operates. Many homeless people have no access to a computer (nor the skills needed anyway), no understanding of complicated official forms, nor any kind of address nor anyone who can act for them and speak for them. Many people, even those in accommodation, also live from day to day - the monthly payment rule is to them a nonsense.

The Universal Credit is one of the worst changes ever introduced by an out-of-touch and uncaring bureaucracy. It has without question caused a lot of extra hardship.

[Richard]

Just housing all the homeless and paying all the costs of the unemployed may or not be the better answer anyway.
Are we not just treating the results of something else?
No use treating something that could be treated more sensibly by tackling its cause in the first place.
The NHS G.P. system is geared up with the pharmaceutical industry and prescribes drugs where it would be better to consider alternatives, although clearly not always.
Perhaps the cause should be tackled as a main priority.
Obesity has an obvious origin and yet we spend countless billions of NHS-tax-payers money on treating the multiple diseases arising - type 2 diabetes, colorectal cancers, eye and foot problems, heart attack, stroke, kidney problems, the list is huge.

More jobs, more houses and more pay has always been a left-wing aim, yet the cause never manages to succeed in reality..
There will always be vulnerable people who fall through the safety-net of society, which has weaknesses, as highlighted by seahermit.
I hear from locals that many begging on the streets are far from homeless and just play the system, as do some on benefits.
If people are wandering the streets out of their heads on drugs, in a sate of psychosis, nobody will intervene, certainly not the Police, they have their hands full already.
It is difficult to deal with but not common in Hastings anyway.
If people who are helped into homes don't tow the line and cause nuisance or trouble they will be evicted and end up back on the streets through their own actions, they will have had their chance as far as the Council are concerned.

[seahermit]

I think my criticisms of the benefit system are valid, there has been plenty of evidence suggesting that it is inefficient, fraught with delays and a cause of further hardship.

However, you are absolutely right that the whole situation is complex, difficult to deal with, no easy answers. The people you see begging on the streets around Hastings are clearly vulnerable but the question is how vulnerable, how badly off are they in reality? The girl in a doorway whom I mentioned was wearing a fairly new, even smart, pair of trainers and was strumming a guitar! Am I just allowing myself to be gulled? It is impossible for the casual passer-by to know the truth of their circumstances and they are adept at inventing stories of hardship, stranded after the last train, beaten up by their boyfriend .. I have heard every variation! I have known several people who ended up on the streets precisely for the reasons you mentioned - they caused so much trouble that they were evicted from flats, even banned from soup kitchens.

I'd like to somehow get nearer the truth of these people's circumstances, but I am not a social worker nor a policeman with the right to ask too many questions!

[Richard]

Those with identified learning difficulties are very well cared for.
Those with certain physical disabilities likewise.
There will always be some who fall through the safety-net, being unemployed, on the streets and either unwilling or unable to accept help, through drug-dependency or mental health issues.
But there is help available, most of us have been through the education system and benefited accordingly. Very few of us are stupid enough to pursue a death wish and just roll around in the gutter.
As for the Universal Credit system, this may cause shortfalls in rent payments and consequent rent arrears, also the onus on payment is down to the individual and is no longer paid directly to the landlord.
I believe there is unfair tendency to blame U.C. for everything.

[seahermit]

I think the whole point, which many people would agree with, is that many individuals with learning difficulties, even physical disabilities, are NOT well-cared for by the NHS and the social services. The services do their best but it is undeniable that they are under even greater strain currently and many people DO unfortunately fall through the net or get much less help than they need.

My point in this thread was to speculate on just how genuine are the beggars and tramps and how does a passer-by start to assess whether an individual is a real hardship case or just ""playing the system".

Unfortunately there seem to be plenty of stupid individuals who DO roll around in the gutter, so to speak. I knew a young woman who had help and flats offered to her, but failed to make appointments or take up offers because drunken nights out were more appealing to her - and literally rolling in the gutter and bawling out gibberish happened several times in my street at 2am!

In daytime in Hastings town centre, groups of men and women regularly gather around benches with copious supplies of alcohol. There may not be a death wish exactly but there is clearly a complete absence of any motivation or desire to live in a better way. The council's answer, in the lack of wardens, was to remove some of the benches - but the drink-sodden groups have merely moved to another part of the street!

[Richard]

For street-dwellers there is a fair amount of support out there if people really want help and are genuine, but a lot are neither and would prefer to beg and drink or take drug and don't want to behave nicely.
That is their choice and there is not a lot can be done about it, apart from moving people on if they are causing a nuisance.

You say many, who merit support are not well cared for by the NHS or social services, I disagree, although a few may have fallen through the safety-net owing to technicalities and are highlighted by the media.

[seahermit]

In the media there are countless reports that the social services, charities and other support services are overwhelmed by the demands for help and the NHS is of course also under strain currently because of the virus epidemic.

I have no immediate reason to disbelieve what I hear and read - bad enough if even half of it was true. I am surprised at you Richard - you come over as quite well-informed, but merely downplaying the situation and suggesting that much of it is the fault of the victims smacks of an old-fashioned, uncaring Tory attitude. I hope you do not actually mean it that way. Not a response appropriate to the problems we have in this country currently and it certainly doesn't provide any helpful and practical solutions.

[Richard]

seahermit,
There is a wide source of social care support if help is genuinely needed.
I wouldn't downplay the perceived situation for one minute, especially in these difficult times.
I believe that the Tories often come across as uncaring, partly down to political in-fighting and partly down to lack of imagination on their part, about how the genuinely less fortunate have to scrimp and save.
However, some people, provided with support, are simply unwilling to behave responsibly, to manage without, they want to do their own thing, believing that they are owed a living and demand their rights (to be on a par with those who pay tax and work all hours) without any reciprocation.
If support is available, without commitments on behalf of the claimants, if the social care system is too generous, then the unemployed will have no incentive to better themselves.

Not sure what you mean about 'victims' I have worked in some top-flight prestigious companies, with excellent reputations but have experienced extreme stress at the hands of 'Neo-fascist' bully boys, in the management structure.
I have also claimed benefits and found, amongst the staff, a gentle and sympathetic understanding of those who are unable to cope in such difficult situations.
The system in and outside employment is never going to be perfect but how would you then make changes to improve conditions.
Also how would you improve the NHS and social care structures that you indicate are failing badly in their duty?