His Church, Robertson Street

[Richard]

Hello Olly,

Hastings has a very high concentration of homeless people, for the region, and remains the most deprived district in East Sussex. People sleep rough from a variety of issues such as mental health, drugs and alcohol and etcetera.

There can be no denying there is a real problem and there are cases where certain Church Officials have cared for homeless people and tried to set up schemes of assistance.
The fact that there are many and varied organisations in Hastings and St. Leo's who offer help bears witness to the problem.

To suggest that you will contact the M.P. for assistance is laudable but mis-directed as they are not able to do other than point you in the direction of those bodies.

[Olly]

Hi Richard and thanks for the detailed summing up of this ghastly social situation. The reality, though, is that these unfortunates are (generally speaking) beyond help; they're dysfunctional, and short of an advance in brain surgery - where the part of it which 'deals with' common sense and rationality - is developed and efficacious, or some kind of hypnotic therapy can be made to work, there's nothing anyone can do to reverse addiction - although a big industry has built up by pretending they can: and addiction isn't only a cerebral malfunction. it's a character fault as well. I'd go further, and ask if you'd agree with me that the very last thing that someone should do for an addict is, unarguably, to supplement or provide the means for them to continue to indulge it? There's only one way out of this, and that is enforced 'cold turkey'. I believe that it's a part of the human condition - in these days of wall-to-wall publicity and health warnings there are bound to be those who will make the conscious decision - note those two words - to ignore it, and the bottom line of that is 'Everyone is responsible for their own destiny.'

[Richard]

I think it is more of a society issue - there are winners and losers for any number of reasons.
If someone is destitute through lack of employment or marriage breakdowns, lonliness or bereavement they may turn to drugs or alcohol as a comfort of last resort and so "cleaning them up" will not be the only needs to address to stop the cause from recurring.
I don't think people make a decision to ignore the warnings about drugs or alcohol but they are curious and they seek short-term pleasure and that is encouraged by society.
We need to tell them that it is much better not to start in the first place as it can be extremely difficult to stop once begun.
If everyone is responsible for their own destiny then remove the Church, NHS, childcare, education - you can't draw the line really.
The DSS is helping people to wean themselves from drugs if they are a problem and a registered addict willingly accepts help.
Human Rights probably prevent enforced 'cold turkey' and it has to come from the 'victim' to seek help voluntarily or be subjected to 'sanctions' eventually if he/she is not making progress or agreeing to treatment.
I think everyone is addicted to many things and society has always readily supplied drugs (remember British Opium Wars) and the modern supply of alcohol and tobacco are only very recently being addressed via closing down of advertising and a ban on smoking in public.
Harder drugs are a different matter but clearly not the only cause of destitution banning such drugs by legal means results in street crime and dealing.
The funny thing remains that drugs only work because there are receptors already in place in the brain and therefore addicts may be supplying an imbalance that is not supplied by other means.
I suspect that we need means to challenge the attention away from drugs and suchlike to something more meaningful and exciting - these means exist but for some reason there is a disconnect and at the end of the day we are all in the gutter, you know the rest !!

[Olly]

It is undoubtedly 'a society issue', but more worryingly it's a cultural one as well, and that's alarmingly ominous. In more ways than one, the younger generation seems to have a 'death wish', aided and encouraged by central government and the national media. For example why is 'tobacco' the well-publicised villain of all social ills when alcohol causes proven physiological as well as mental damage, plus massive social chaos - not the least being the pressures on AandE every weekend? - god help anyone who has an unwanted threat-to-life episode on a Friday/Saturday night but finds they have to wait behind someone who's bleeding because they were involved in a drunken pub fight. That 'someone' could be any of us one day? I mean, apart from a few PC caveats, boozing seems to be acceptable almost to the point of approval. I can't imagine how 'the DSS is helping people to wean themselves from drugs' if the addict doesn't consent to treatment (even if there was a treatment, which there isn't!), and how many do consent? 1 in 100 I'd conservatively guess. Yes drugs have been around for a long time, but it's just as well we don't all become 'curious' isn't it? That's what I mean by 'a character flaw' - someone who is too weak to overcome the temptation: and they might one day be another reason a heart attack patient is relegated in the AandE queue because the drug addict has been blue-lighted in having OD'd. I could go on, but it's a big subject. I'd like you to answer my question though - is enabling them (ie by giving them money or food) to continue buying what's slowly but surely killing them the right thing to do? Or is it the last thing to do, and more effective measures implemented instead - and I'm afraid that means enforced assistance. If you can think of any other way I'd be very interested to hear it.

[Olly]

Here's an analogy I've just thought of to exemplify my stance Richard: if you tell someone 'Don't touch that red-hot poker because you'll be seriously hurt.' and they then go and touch it because they're curious, would you feel sorry for them? I'd say 'I told you not to touch it so it serves you right.'

[nannygee]

I wonder I olly or Richard know enough about drugs and drink and mental illness as I said before there go I except of the grace of god most of these people have problems from child hood being in care being abused left to foster parents wicked step mother or father I could go on and on they turn to drugs and drink for comfort to forget the bad times and then they cannot go without many of them would like to stop but cant as one dying young mother age 40 said it would have been nice to get up in the morning and not feel so ill sick and shaking unable to cope without a drink if she had been a rich pop star or a famouse footballer she could have gone to a rehab but she just died

[Richard]

Olly wrote:
Here's an analogy I've just thought of to exemplify my stance Richard: if you tell someone 'Don't touch that red-hot poker because you'll be seriously hurt.' and they then go and touch it because they're curious, would you feel sorry for them? I'd say 'I told you not to touch it so it serves you right.'

Hello Olly,
In relation to your earlier post I repeat there are rules in place at the DSS to stop benefits if people do not consent to a drug rehabilitation programme.

As for the warnings about dangers from drugs (example cancer or heart attack from smoking) I am afraid it is like telling a kid of 16 that they have to start saving for a pension when both events are so far in the future, and at an age which seems not worth looking forward to, that the message is wasted in the telling.

Also the intelligence of youth is underestimated as they can easily see through the scare-stories such as the lurid pictures of the effects of smoking on someone's lungs.
Harder drugs may be a different matter as the exposure of young people to substances they are not yet really aware of may or may not be presented in a similar 'scare-story' manner at school and although the effects may be shown to be more immediate it is often the adults showing the effects of drugs to kids that cause problems in their over-reaction.

[Richard]

nannygee wrote:
I wonder I olly or Richard know enough about drugs and drink and mental illness as I said before there go I except of the grace of god most of these people have problems from child hood being in care being abused left to foster parents wicked step mother or father I could go on and on they turn to drugs and drink for comfort to forget the bad times and then they cannot go without many of them would like to stop but cant as one dying young mother age 40 said it would have been nice to get up in the morning and not feel so ill sick and shaking unable to cope without a drink if she had been a rich pop star or a famouse footballer she could have gone to a rehab but she just died

Agreed - many people have underlying problems - even rich well-known pop stars seem to have a death-wish and do not respond well to help but are pushed by factors invisible to others.

[Olly]

nannygee wrote:
I wonder I olly or Richard know enough about drugs and drink and mental illness as I said before there go I except of the grace of god most of these people have problems from child hood being in care being abused left to foster parents wicked step mother or father I could go on and on they turn to drugs and drink for comfort to forget the bad times and then they cannot go without many of them would like to stop but cant as one dying young mother age 40 said it would have been nice to get up in the morning and not feel so ill sick and shaking unable to cope without a drink if she had been a rich pop star or a famouse footballer she could have gone to a rehab but she just died

nanny - Although I've only had one direct experience with alcoholism, and this was when the dearest friend I've ever had turned to it because of the flashbacks he kept having (especially where babies and toddler-age children were involved) from the years when he was a city (Birmingham) fire-fighter; and it should be remembered that they also have to deal with appalling road accidents as well as putting out fires? I watched him gradually succumb to vodka until it pickled his brain, and after a number of spells in Woodlands (where, I might add, the shrinks and their 'psycho-analysing gobble-de-gook' rapidly made him worse): he died of dementia in a local nursing home at the age of 61 - what a waste of a good and brave man, and I'm sure there are many like him. I'm an intensely observant man, and although he was the only victim of mind-bending substances whom I knew, I also know that it's widespread, and because of today's sybaritic culture becoming moreso. Don't think I'm not sympathetic, but being a pragmatist as opposed to an idealist I believe that hand-wringing does nothing to address the problem, and that the only way to deal with it is by practising the 'you have to be cruel to be kind' logic. I quite understand that some cases are the result of an appalling childhood (not the least being the seemingly endemic physical abuse) and they're the ones my sympathies are for; but they're not for those who are feckless and grossly irresponsible, and who lead chaotic lifestyles - that's choice and absence of moral fibre, not misfortune! I think genuine sympathy and empathy are finite emotions, and all our available resources and practical endeavours should be directed towards those who deserve it, not those who don't.

[Richard]

It is patently obvious that drugs and alcohol can affect anyone and therefore to be judgemental is to deny the "there but for the grace of God" attitude which I believe in as it allows for all people to be included as equals rather than excluded on any account.
Whether a man is fallen from a high place or not is immaterial to me.
I am not particularly religious but can understand the sensible quotes from the Bible and believe many have great usefulness, such as "Seek and ye shall find" being one of my favourites.
Another that springs to mind on this matter is as follows:

"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".

so let us not be hypocritical just ignoring the man in the gutter because he has not been a bastion of society.
It really doesn't matter what is the cause, if a man is drowning he is drowning.