Carlisle Pub (Pelham Arms), Denmark Arms and Public Shelter

[Geoff]

[quoted]
Terry wrote:
[img://www.hastingsforum.co.uk/forums/sf_attachments/4128617331_b993a2705f.jpg]
[/quoted]

Thanks Terry, however the scan is too small to put on the gallery.

Rest assured I would never claim copyright that isn't mine and all pictures used are credited to whoever supplies them. I agree it would be lovely if all old photos were freely usable but we all have to abide by the laws so I always clear it with the owners before publishing them. Judges have been especially good to me in the past for example.

If you are able to send me a higher res scan of the postcard I would love to get it up on the gallery. I have built an upload function into the gallery that will take larger files rather than uploading to the forum. You might find that easier. Go to the bottom of any gallery page for more info.

Many thanks

Geoff





[/quoted[/img]

Thanks Terry, however the scan is too small to put on the gallery.

Rest assured I would never claim copyright that isn't mine and all pictures used are credited to whoever supplies them. I agree it would be lovely if all old photos were freely usable but we all have to abide by the laws so I always clear it with the owners before publishing them. Judges have been especially good to me in the past for example.

If you are able to send me a higher res scan of the postcard I would love to get it up on the gallery. I have built an upload function into the gallery that will take larger files rather than uploading to the forum. You might find that easier. Go to the bottom of any gallery page for more info.

Many thanks

Geoff

[david_russell]

Terry,

Which drawing do you mean ?

David

[david_russell]

Terry

Carlisle pics in ref library

Photographs from the 1890s by George Woods p22
H. in Old Photographs by Pamela Harris p133
Photos, box 5, area 02, Denmark Place
Postcards, BOA-CAS, Carlisle Parade
Postcards, CAV-EBE, Denmark Place (x4)
Postcards, OLD-PIER, Pelham St
Land Lord and 2 bars, HSLO 9/9/1899
Snooker photo HSLO 18/1/1936
Ladies snooker HSLO 16/4/1938
Sun lounge HSLO 24/9/1938
New dance floor HSLO 21/1/1939

[Terry]

[quoted]
David Russell wrote:
Terry

Carlisle pics in ref library

Photographs from the 1890s by George Woods p22
H. in Old Photographs by Pamela Harris p133
Photos, box 5, area 02, Denmark Place
Postcards, BOA-CAS, Carlisle Parade
Postcards, CAV-EBE, Denmark Place (x4)
Postcards, OLD-PIER, Pelham St
Land Lord and 2 bars, HSLO 9/9/1899
Snooker photo HSLO 18/1/1936
Ladies snooker HSLO 16/4/1938
Sun lounge HSLO 24/9/1938
New dance floor HSLO 21/1/1939


[/quoted]

I may have got the wrong book. I was refering to a black and white drawing of the pub as it appeared around 1907 that was sent to me by Email showing a group of children gathered around a man outside the pub. It looks as if the pub is peeking out from behind Carlisle Villas, but that doesn't work as the pub is on the right of the drawing, but would have been on the left in reality. It doesn't seem to fit from the Pelham Street side either. Actually I owe you an apology because upon closer examination the drawing appears to come from a calender rather than a book. I suspect some artistic license may be involved, but I'm not sure as I've yet to see a clear picture of the pub at this time.

As I said, I will get around to buying your book, but it'll probably be in the new year. Thanks for the list of photos, as you've probably gathered, I've never done this sort of research before and a photo's worth a thousand words. I'm not out to make any money out of this or write book. It started of as idle curiosity and just grew.

The 1899 period is interesting as there seem to have been several landlords around this time: Mr Willard, Mr. Chase, Mr. Birkett (who "went wrong" as the Observer puts it), and then Mr. Chase again who ended up in the bakruptcy court in December 1901. The Obsever calls him Albert Chase, but the London Gazette calls him Ernest Edgar Chase. According to the Observer Mr. Chase seems to have lost a lot of money backing horses at Newmarket. The next landlord I have is Frank Bishop in 1913, so there's a bit of a gap.

[Terry]

[quoted]
Administrator wrote:
[quoted]
Terry wrote:
[img://www.hastingsforum.co.uk/forums/sf_attachments/4128617331_b993a2705f.jpg]
[/quoted]

Thanks Terry, however the scan is too small to put on the gallery.

Rest assured I would never claim copyright that isn't mine and all pictures used are credited to whoever supplies them. I agree it would be lovely if all old photos were freely usable but we all have to abide by the laws so I always clear it with the owners before publishing them. Judges have been especially good to me in the past for example.

If you are able to send me a higher res scan of the postcard I would love to get it up on the gallery. I have built an upload function into the gallery that will take larger files rather than uploading to the forum. You might find that easier. Go to the bottom of any gallery page for more info.

Many thanks

Geoff


[/quoted]

As I say, the postcard bears no indication of who printed it. I own the postcard, but make no claim to the copywrite. I'll try and get a higher res scan, but that will take some time due to the aforementioned tech stuff.



[/quoted[/img]

Thanks Terry, however the scan is too small to put on the gallery.

Rest assured I would never claim copyright that isn't mine and all pictures used are credited to whoever supplies them. I agree it would be lovely if all old photos were freely usable but we all have to abide by the laws so I always clear it with the owners before publishing them. Judges have been especially good to me in the past for example.

If you are able to send me a higher res scan of the postcard I would love to get it up on the gallery. I have built an upload function into the gallery that will take larger files rather than uploading to the forum. You might find that easier. Go to the bottom of any gallery page for more info.

Many thanks

Geoff


[/quoted[/img]

As I say, the postcard bears no indication of who printed it. I own the postcard, but make no claim to the copywrite. I'll try and get a higher res scan, but that will take some time due to the aforementioned tech stuff.

[david_russell]

Hi Terry,

There is another drawing in relation to the Carlisle. It's a drawing of the 'Chase-Carlisle Cup' which was a football cup presented to local football teams around 100 years ago. I'll try and post it.

Re: the 1907 drawing: the artist drew it from a copy of an original photograph i found in the lib. He copied it accurately, it's a true view of the pub. How did you date it to 1907 ?

David

[david_russell]

Also, coming out of all this pub research, i'm compiling a 'Register of licensees'. (As far as I know there isn't one) Could you give me the dates for the landlords you mention above please ?

David

[Terry]

[quoted]
David Russell wrote:
Also, coming out of all this pub research, i'm compiling a 'Register of licensees'. (As far as I know there isn't one) Could you give me the dates for the landlords you mention above please ?

David
[/quoted]

As I'm not a proffessional and I'm only doing this as a sort of hobby, I haven't really kept many notes. Most of the information regarding landlords comes from http://deadpubs.co.uk/SussexPubs/Hastings/index.shtml but there are gaps in their records and some information conflicts with other sources, such as the date of Mr. Willard's stewardship, as Mr Chase apparently took over the pub in January 1899. (They don't mention Mr. Chase or Mr. Birkett at all) and I have gleaned some info from other sources such as the National Archives, the London Gazette and the study of old newspapers at Hastings Library. I have to admit that much of my info comes from simply googling various items and seeing what comes up. At other times I have stumbled upon things purely by accident.

Frank or Francis Henry Bishop was involved in an auction business based at 110 Wandsworth Road Vauxhall with someone called William George Morgan trading as WG Morgan until October 1924, when the partnership was disolved. Oddly enough 108 - 110 Wandsworth Road is now a pub called Stockers, so it's possible that Mr. Morgan was also in the pub trade, but I have not investigated this. In the 1930s Mr. Bishop enters into a bewildering number of "Deeds of Covenant" with Hastings Council. These appear to relate to drainage, which makes sense as many of the town's sewers were being renewed at this time.

As I'm sure you know, due to legal restrictions on married women holding licenses, it was at one time common practice for landlords to have a day job and leave the running of the pub to their wives, although I have been unable to discover if he actually had a wife, so I don't know if that was the case here.

In 1938, Dead Pubs shows him as joint landlord of the Lord Nelson with someone called A R Barker. As I said, I am not a proffessional and I may have misunderstood some things. I do have some other information regarding alteration dates for the pub which I am happy to share with you if you wish. Sadly details of exactly what these alterations were are not given online.

Much of my information regarding the Chandler family comes from their decendants (some of whom have acquired the name Lewes) who have compiled a short history on the net. I have attempted to contact the two branches of this family, so far, without success. For some reason one branch seems to think the Pelham Arms became a coffee shop and then a lodging house, but I think they may have been confused by the renumbering of Pelham Street when the pub becomes No.24 after previously being No.5.

I have also had no success in contacting the Browne family, who are decsended from Mr. Chase.

[Terry]

[quoted]
David Russell wrote:
Hi Terry,

There is another drawing in relation to the Carlisle. It's a drawing of the 'Chase-Carlisle Cup' which was a football cup presented to local football teams around 100 years ago. I'll try and post it.

Re: the 1907 drawing: the artist drew it from a copy of an original photograph i found in the lib. He copied it accurately, it's a true view of the pub. How did you date it to 1907 ?


David
[/quoted]

I didn't date it, that was the date I was given when I was sent the drawing. I think my friend may have "lifted" it from the internet. I wasn't trying to suggest it wasn't accurate, but I can't place where the artist was standing in relation to photos I have seen and I haven't seen the photo you mention. If you let me know where he was standing, I shall probably kick myself for not realising before.

I've stumbled across mention of the Carlisle Cup once or twice in old newspapers, but the name Chase-Carlisle is new to me. I wondered if it related to the pub, but could find no positive link and thought it might be a red herring related to Carlisle Villas, Carlisle parade or something else. Thank you for that info. Do you have a start date for it? i assume there would have been details given in the local press, but as I've said before, trawling through hundreds of old newspapers, whilst frequently amusing, is a task that often sends me to sleep. If you've ever seen someone rise from behind a microfilm viewer in the library and go for a walk to wake himself up, it was probably me!

[Terry]

[quoted]
Administrator wrote:
[quoted]
Terry wrote:
[img://www.hastingsforum.co.uk/forums/sf_attachments/4128617331_b993a2705f.jpg]
[/quoted]

Thanks Terry, however the scan is too small to put on the gallery.

Rest assured I would never claim copyright that isn't mine and all pictures used are credited to whoever supplies them. I agree it would be lovely if all old photos were freely usable but we all have to abide by the laws so I always clear it with the owners before publishing them. Judges have been especially good to me in the past for example.

If you are able to send me a higher res scan of the postcard I would love to get it up on the gallery. I have built an upload function into the gallery that will take larger files rather than uploading to the forum. You might find that easier. Go to the bottom of any gallery page for more info.

Many thanks

Geoff


[/quoted]

I've managed to get a higher res scan, but every time I try to upload it, the uploading gadget seems to grind to a halt after about three minutes and everything freezes up on me. This may be because the site is busy or due to my slow connection speed as I use a dongle to access the internet. I'll try again later. If that doesn't work, I'll try to find another way to send it.



[/quoted[/img]

Thanks Terry, however the scan is too small to put on the gallery.

Rest assured I would never claim copyright that isn't mine and all pictures used are credited to whoever supplies them. I agree it would be lovely if all old photos were freely usable but we all have to abide by the laws so I always clear it with the owners before publishing them. Judges have been especially good to me in the past for example.

If you are able to send me a higher res scan of the postcard I would love to get it up on the gallery. I have built an upload function into the gallery that will take larger files rather than uploading to the forum. You might find that easier. Go to the bottom of any gallery page for more info.

Many thanks

Geoff


[/quoted[/img]

I've managed to get a higher res scan, but every time I try to upload it, the uploading gadget seems to grind to a halt after about three minutes and everything freezes up on me. This may be because the site is busy or due to my slow connection speed as I use a dongle to access the internet. I'll try again later. If that doesn't work, I'll try to find another way to send it.