Carlisle Pub (Pelham Arms), Denmark Arms and Public Shelter

[Terry]

Just stumbled on one of my sources.

From Kelly's Post Office Directory of Essex, Herts, Middlesex, Kent, Surrey and Sussex, 1867

Goldsmith George, Denmark Arms, Pelham street
Goldsmith James, lodging house, 5 Denmark place

see

http://steve.pickthall.users.btopenworl ... 1867d.html

It doesn't really tell you much other than who lived where and sometimes what they did for a living.

I can't recall if I've mentioned this before, but Richard Chandler is listed as

Chandler Richard Edwards, Pelham Arms, Pelham street

suggesting that he may have been using his mother's maiden name as Richard Edwards-Chandler.

I don't suppose it's important, but scraps of information like this can sometimes lead somewhere and at other times lead to a wild goose chase.

[david_russell]

Scraps of info can be very important for research. Particularly when there's nothing else to go on.

Terry re: the Carlisle. How far are you going to take it ? ie what year/period ? Im very interested in the fact that since WW2 it's very much been a pub connected to various youth cultures. For instance a person I interviewed for my book, Michael Rose, told me in general about the Carlisle in the 1950s.

He indicated that it was then a 'Ted's' pub and it's large upstairs room was an early venue of emerging Rock and Roll.

While there's quite a bit of info on the Bikers, Rockers, Mods etc even skinheads, there's very little on the Teddy Boys/Girls. Indeed, the mods have a whole exhibition to themselves in the museum. But no mention of teds ?

Apart from Michael Rose I only have one reference to Carlisle Parade as 'Teddy Boys Walk' in the 50s.

Any ex Hastings Teds out there willing to share thier memories ??

[Terry]

May I just point out that Carlisle Parade is further to the west, between Harold Place and the Smugglers end of Robertson Street: The area where the Carlilse stands is called Denmark Place. Look at the Google map and zoom in. Otherwise you'll confuse the tourists!

I'm interested in all periods really. When I started looking into the Carlisle's history I was astonished to find that (as the Pelham Arms) it dated all the way back to 1825 and how many times and how substantially the building's been altered. I've never undertaken this sort of research before and the more I find out, the more questions seem to arise

I was aware that local bikers (Hastings and St Leonards Motorcycle Association?) used the function room in the late 50s and during the 60s, but the Teddy boy connection is something new to me.

Of course, for the first 100 years or so the Pelham Arms/Carlisle would have been largely hidden behind Carlisle Villas. The 1920 extension along the side of the Villas would seem to be the first time the pub's structure actually reached the seafront proper. Have you any idea what that little lighthouse thing on the roof of this extension was for? Was it put there just so customers could look out to sea?

The names Pelham Hotel and Carlise Saloon pop up from time to time and the signs often say Carlise Saloon in old photos, but as far as I can assertain, it's always been officially called the Pelham Arms until 1892 and then the Carlisle Hotel. I assume the Saloon name appeared to avoid confusion when the establishment stopped renting rooms (1920?). I recall a flustered barmaid one afternoon trying to explain to someone on the phone who'd seen the Carlisle Hotel (probably in the phone book) and wanted to rent a room for the night that "I'm sorry, it's not that sort of hotel, it's just a pub_ _ _ _ _ _It's not my fault, I didn't name the bloody place, I just work here!"

I'll have to get back down that library soon and trawl through the old newspapers. Trouble is, it often sends me to sleep!

[david_russell]

I've got a photocopy of a report by the Environmental Committee of Hastings Borough Council on the Carlisle for 1991 if you would like it. Not sure how to post it - it's four pages A4.

[Geoff]

Hi David, you should be able to attach most file types in the same way as you do photos, just click the attachment link to the left and point to the file. Word docs or pdf's should upload fine for example.

Hope this helps.

Geoff

[david_russell]

[Attachment: Carlisle_1991.PDF (243.39kb)]

[david_russell]

It's not an inspiring document I'm afraid. Bot can anybody tell me about the two other venues in Harold Place (JR's and Images) mentioned in section 4.1
I didn't live in Hastings then.

[Anonymous1]

I'm not sure about Images. JRs (now Cosmos Chinese Restaurant) was part of the queens Hotel. In the 70's I did some work there when it was refitted and opened as "Lazy Bones" nightclub. I worked as an assistant "chippy" with the Hotel maintenance man. Free lunch in the hotel staff canteen was thrown in, what a mess that Hotel was. The nightclub Manager was an old friend.

4.2 in your doc sums up council planning very well. Fancy giving planning permission for residential developments in an entertainment area. It happened opposite the pier, complaints made life very difficult for the pier owners. Dances and rock gigs became impossible.

[Terry]

On the subject of town planning I recently discovered these videos which show the the local council's planning pipe dream. It's dated 1946, but I suspect its actually from the 30s. Some interesting shots of the planner's model town and the real town from that period.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=26711

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=57618

For some reason they seem to think the Albert Memorial was a War Memorial!

[Anonymous1]

Nice links Terry