Carlisle Pub (Pelham Arms), Denmark Arms and Public Shelter

[david_russell]

Re the Foresters: "built as a pub". By this I mean that it was built by James Hoell around 1878. He expected to get a full license and applied for one from 1878-1881 but was refused. Prior to this he had been a Good Templar ie a temperance headbanger and the magistrates didn't seem to like the idea of him changing sides. Finally they granted him an Off Lic and I think it stayed that way.

Hi Kevin, welcome. I'll post some stuff on my thread.

[terry_again]

I admit I had assumed the Forester's Arms was a pub or beer house because it looked like one and had a name that sounded like one. I recall seeing it from a distance as a child, but because it was so isolated and not on the way to or from anywhere, I never got a close look at it until I was older and decided to try it out, but by then it had become a sort of convenience store and I can't remember whether they sold alcohol or not. That's the danger of making assumptions I suppose.

It does seems unusual to have an off licence with a name though (other than those that were part of a pub). Dead Pubs list 41 year old Benjamin Baker of Ore as Forester's Arms Beer House Keeper in 1891, but in 1899 he's listed as a beer retailer. All the other licencees are also listed as retailers and I've yet to meet anyone who remembers it as a pub, so perhaps it was only ever a shop with a licence for off sales.

Nobody bombard me with named off licences please, I'm not trying to say it didn't happen, only that I hadn't encountered it before.

[terry_again]

Oh and hi Kevan.

[david_russell]

Terry, Iv'e come across this on the Pelham Arms. It may not be accurate.


The Pelham Arms were between 23 and 25 Pelham Street, Richard Chandler had a new inn licensed in 1825 as the Pelham Arms and held it until 1851.

He also rented Blacklands Farm.

Pelham Arms was held by his son, Richard E. Chandler in 1852 until 1871, and then held by Robert Stone in 1876. It was in the hands of E. Honess from 1878 until 1882.

On 6 February 1835, a man named Boniface and two brothers with the surname of Chiverton got ashore at Hastings during a great storm at sea and were taken in by Mr Chandler of the Pelham Arms.

The three had put to sea at Plymouth three days earlier and were blown away by the storm. The older Chiverton died from hunger and exposure and the other two were completely exhausted.

Richard Chandler was twin brother to Councillor Chandler. At 25 he entered a partnership with John Wellsted at 3 Colonnade, or 3 Marina as it is now known in the plumbing, painting and glazing trade. The partnership lasted 23 years until the death of Wellsted.

Chandler continued until a few days from April 1880 when after a brief illness he died at 68.

His son succeeded him in business having removed to 13 East Ascent where Chandler had removed prior to his death. In his early life he worked on a farm at. Blacklands, which was rented by his father Richard Chandler, an old inhabitant of Hastings who built the Pelham Arms and was landlord to his death.

[terry_again]

Thanks for that David. I had no idea Henry Chandler was a councillor.

The information I have is that Richard Chandler senior was born in about 1773. In 1803 he married Mary Edwards and they had seven children over the next 22 years: Sarah (born 1808), Mary (born 1809), twins Henry and Richard (born 1812), Thomas (born 1817), Charles (born 1818) and Frederick (born 1825). Richard senior is described as a dealer in marine stores and the London Gazette suggests he may have held a pilot's licence to take ships to and from the sea at Hastings. He is also said to have owned a number of properties in the town, but the only property apart from the pub I've been able to find is 33 West Street. I have no idea if the building presently standing at 33 West Street is the same building, a rebuild or a replacement, but it certainly looks very old.

Richard senior built the Pelham Arms (described as a tavern) in 1825 attatched to a house he already owned on the "road leading to the Chalk road" in 1825. In 1826 this road is being described as "the road leading to the Pelham Arms" and the first mention of it as Pelham Street seems to be in 1827, which suggests the road may actually be named after the pub. By the 1840s The Pelham Arms was being described as an inn and by the late 1880s/early 1890s it is often called the Pelham Hotel. It was still being called Pelham Hotel as late as 1894, despite Tom Brown renaming it the Carlisle Hotel when the building was modified/rebuilt in 1892. In 1830 the pub is said to be at number 3, but that might be a misprint as it magically moves to number 5 by 1832. The street was later renumbered and the pub became number 24 and remains so today.

The Eastern end of Denmark Place was originally called Caroline Place/Parade. The West end of Denmark Place and the buildings on the south side of Pelham Street all seem to date from the 1820s/30s. Carlisle Villas were built in 1822. The area is described at that time as "stonebeach," which seems to suggest it was literally on the beach. The Carlisle pub in its much rebuilt and modified form is the only survivor of those buildings. Once again, Carlisle Parade is further to the west on the other side of the Queen's Hotel.

Thomas Chandler seems to have ended up in Australia where he married Mary Angel Ransom from Sussex. It's possible that she was a member of the well known Ransom shipbuilding/journalism/grocer family of Hastings, but I have no hard evidence of that. Much of my info comes from the Tom Chandler's descendants in Australia who have made this available on the internet, but not being a proffessional, I haven't noted exactly where.

It seems certain that the Ransom and Chandler families would have known each other as they both owned property in Pelham Street and both were connected with the nautical trade. I accidentally discovered that several members of the Ransom family were buried in the Priory Road graveyard at Halton and the inscriptons on their headstones remain legible, although they are not in their original positions. I suspect the Chandlers are buried on the Ridge, but I haven't looked into this.

I was aware that the Chandlers had farming interests, but had not been able to find out what these were other than a suggestion that Richard Chandler junior's wife Barbera was possibly a member of the Stubberfield family of corn and fodder merchants, although her maiden name is also given as Thwaites. The Thwaites family also seem to have been involved with shipbuilding.

The information you've supplied above seems to fit in with most of the other stuff, but much of it is new to me.

[terry_again]

The Watering Places of Great Britain published in the 1840s says "At the other Inns in this Watering-place [Hastings], viz. the PELHAM ARMS, the CROWN, the KING'S HEAD, the QUEEN'S HEAD, the ANCHOR, the CUTTER, and the HASTINGS ARMS, company will find attention and convenience, either for a long or short period, the charges being not only reasonable, but every thing of the best."

The 1867 Kellys Directory says: the principal inns [of Hastings are], the Anchor, York, Cutter, Pelham Arms, and King's Head.

[terry_again]

I've posted the 1924 picture of the Carlisle on Flickr at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42360712@N ... hotostream

You're welcome to download it if you wish. I don't know if the resolution's okay. That's all a bit technical for me.

[chris_lewcock]

The attached photo from the Museum archives shows Lewcocks Restaurant (no apostrophe) in the 1930s on the south west corner of Denmark Place. Hope this helps.

[img://www.hastingsforum.co.uk/forums/sf_attachments/Hastings_Seafront_1930s_001.jpg]

[terry_again]

Thanks Chris, Are you related to Mr Lewcock by chance?

This is an interesting photo as it shows the old Wilberforce Hotel extended at the front earlier than I thought.

From what I gather Lewcocks started at 29 Pelham Street and later took over the old Gattis / Ferrari Brothers restaurant and several other nearby buildings. Gattis and the Ferrari Brothers seem to have relocated to Havelock Road. I'm told Ernest(?) Lewcock sold up and retired, dying shortly before his old restaurant was bombed. I suppose in one way it was a blessing that he never lived to see what happened. This restaurant seems to have been very highly regarded. Due to this, the new owners retained the Lewcocks name when they took over.

I've managed to find an old photo of the area outside the restaurant when it was just called Gattis.

[img://www.hastingsforum.co.uk/forums/sf_attachments/Gattis.jpg]

[chris_lewcock]

Terry

Ernest Arthur was my Great Great Uncle. No intimate family connections probably because my great grandfather (his brother) was based in Yorkshire (he was a witness at his wedding) and my grandfather also Yorkshire and later London. All my Dad can remember was having a very large ice cream when visiting - which I reckon must have been for Ernest Arthur's son Ernest George's funeral in 1935. EG and EA (and other children) are buried in Hastings Cemetery.

EA was a commercial clerk who came first to Iden in about 1900. His wife Emily Margaret Sewell had been a waitress in Deptford where they met (?) and married. At some point Ernest was joined by his younger brother Sidney who (I'm guessing) was doing the books. Ernest and Emily has several children including Ernest George (who pre-deceased them as above) and three surviving daughters including Katherine who according to EA's obituary was helping manage the restaurant. Ernest George married Daisy Burt in 1926 but they don't seem to have had any children. Daisy subsequently remarried.

Trawling trade directories and electoral registers I'm starting to build a picture. Emily Margaret first appears at "Mrs Lewcocks dining rooms" at 32 Pelham Street in 1902. At this time Ernest Arthur was a carpenter in Castle Street. By 1910 32 Pelham Street has become Ye Olde Beehive Dining Rooms proprietor Ernest Lewcock. Later Ernest set up a (rival to Hastings and St Leonards Chess Club, or perhaps the juniors?) chess and draughts club at the Beehive which features regularly in the Hastings Chronicle. Over the next 30 odd years the pair appear to have expanded and contracted their business and homes as between 22, 29 and 32 Pelham Street, 1-6 Denmark Place and 1 and 2 Cobden Houses (in Harold Place). Including running a mineral water manufactory and wholesale provisions merchant out of 29 Pelham Street. It does look as if they took over Gatti's from Ferraris by 1911. In 1916 1 Denmark Place is described in Parsons as the "headquarters" of the Hastings and St Leonards Football Association. In 1918 Denmark Place premises are described as the Aquarium restaurant (reverting to an earlier name when it was run by T Tassell?) only becoming in 1923 Lewcocks Hotel and Restaurant.

Not quite sure yet of the final years because of trade directories and electoral registers stopping in the War. Ernest's obituary and a report on the Hastings and St Leonards Chess Club site suggests that he was taken seriously ill in 1938 moving to Linton Road then the Stores in Whatlington before dying in 1941. This means that he missed the 1943 bombing. However, Emily and daughters were still around. In the war damage report (in the Museum archives) 1,2,3 Denmark Place and 12 Cobden Houses are listed as empty and owned by P.W Walker (Directors) and E.Lewcock and Co. Walkers were Ernest Arthur's executors. Perhaps they were working with Emily to keep it going till after the War before trying to sell or ..? More research needed.

You will find if you try the Museum Archive on Wednesdays that they have a lot of very clear aerial photos of the seafront across the 20th century. Very easy to access, probably answer a lot of your queries - and raise even more? E.g the attachment.

Kind regards

Chris Lewcock



[img://www.hastingsforum.co.uk/forums/sf_attachments/Hastings_Seafront_1910s_1920s_002.jpg]