church street, ore village

[Anonymous1]

This seems to be a good use of the land:

http://www.orecommunitylandtrust.org.uk ... enway.html

[penny_cornford]

[quoted]
Terry again wrote:
The website still exists in some sort of form, but it appears to be broken. The text is still readable and there is an identical version available in the public library. The name Knocker Noakes and Quinnell also appears. Apparently one family made funeral wreaths. The off licence at the Clifton Road end is the last remaining building and technically in Clifton Road. It's now part of a care home, but was listed in trade directories and the London Gazette as the Carpenter's Arms public house! Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
[/quoted]
I seem to remember Mrs Burgess who I think was Granny Noakes from the shops daughter made the funeral wreaths. Mrs Burgess lived in the end house by the green with he son Freddie

[penny_cornford]

[quoted]
Terry again wrote:
Yes that's the site GK.

Was it definitely a pub or beer house? I remember thinking it looked like it may have been one at some time and it is named as the Carpenter's Arms and listed in Pike's as a pub (beer houses often were), but nobody seems to remember it being anything more than an off licence. It seems unusual to have an off licence with a name, but there may have been another called the Forester's Arms at Pinders which was only a short lived beer house that carried on trading under that name as an off licence/shop.

As I've said elswhere, I would expect objections to a pub or beer house so close to an institution like the workhouse.

From what I can gather, that green area has never been built on, although there were plans (that were never carried out) and also a scheme to put a bomb shelter there (I have no idea if that ever happened). Can anyone shed any light on this?
[/quoted]
In The 1901 census my great great grandmother who remarried when he husband died was the beerkeeper of 2 Clifton Cottages Chuch Street. My Great great grandparents we Cornfords

[penny_cornford]

I seem to remember they demolished Chuch Street because of subsidance but it was always an unadopted road and never tarmaced. The unmarried woman who's baby died was my either my grandfathers sister or his aunt as there was 2 Minnie Cornfords who lived in Chuch Street

[terry_again]

I found this in the 1903 London Gazette (almost at the bottom on the left) which records the death of Sophia Jane Carrell, late of The Carpenter's Arms Clifton Cottages, so that's definitely the right place. There seems to be virtually no information about this lost pub, beer house or whatever it was. Even David Russell missed this one.




http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27619/pages/7703

[penny_cornford]

I'm being really nosey now Terry, who were the brothers prosecuted in 1904 from Church Street? I lived in Greville Road from when I was born until the 70's and then again in the 80's until 1995 so I remember alot about Church Steet and some of the people that lived there Thanks for the info on my great great grandmother. I printed it off and will send it to my brother who still lives in Hastings.

[terry_again]

I can't recall their names. I'm not sure it would be right to publish them on an open forum like this anyway. It can't be right to judge people from that era from the relative comfort of the 21st century.

It was something I stumbled upon while looking at an old copy of the HandSLO on microfilm in the library. On reflection, it might have been 1903. The wives were apparently arrested in South Terrace after being seen taking men to the Bedford Hotel in Queen's Road.

Can you confirm whether the Carpenter's Arms was a proper pub, a beer house, beer shop or an off licence at that time Penny?

This seems to be one of Hastings' most obscure watering holes. In it's later years it seems to have been simply a shop/off licence, but it was still appearing as a public house in trade directories as late as 1938. Beer houses and off licences were often listed as pubs back then, so it isn't easy to tell, but the description 'Beer keeper' and the fact that it has a name certainly suggests a beer house at least.

As I've said somewhere else, the Forester's Arms at Pinders was also listed as a pub, but it only appears to have been a short lived beer house as a full licence was refused.

There were at least two other boozers in Hastings called the Carpenter's Arms (one became the Cambridge, now called the Tubman). Pubs and beer houses were often named after the landlord's former occupation or day job. The wives often ran the place when he wasn't there, but were not permitted to hold the licence.

[penny_cornford]

On the Census 1901 it just states that Sophia was a widow head of household and Beerhouse keeper.She had 12 children with my great great grandfather and he died in 1887 she met Frederick Carrell married him in 1893 but he had died by the time the 1901 census came out. I remember The Carpenter Arms sign and can picture it in my mind inside and Think the owners was Mr and Mrs Jones. There was a house next door in Church street but I don't know If that belonged to them and next door to that was Mr Oven's bakery and to walk past there and smell the bread and cakes was heaven. I went to Sandown school with Philip their son and last year bumped into Mrs Ovens who is in her 90's now

[Martin Newbold]

Hi everyone accoring to Pikes 1922 and 1938 the Carpenters Arms was listed from 1922 to 1938 at least. Do you have any other details please?

[Martin Newbold]

Mum said Knocker Noakes was a lady who owned property in Ore Valley Not a man Terry