Alpine Road butchers

[BisleyBullet]

Anyone, any idea the name of this butchers in Alpine Road?

[Richard]

This must be up near Plynlyimmon Road, West hill area.

1873 Sept - The last two of the three West Hill windmills, plus the steam mill, were soon to be demolished, making way for Alpine Road and Gordon Road.

Any idea of the road number or the date of the "Butcher's"?

[Geoff]

I'm thinking this was on the corner of Alpine Road and Plynlimmon Road. No.11 Alpine Road has the same cut corner.

As for the name of the butcher, any offers?

[Richard]

could check the street dir's at the library next week - unless anyone else has an idea !!

[Derek Jempson]

I'm afraid I can't help with the name of the butcher, but just look at the sheer quantity of meat on display and at a time when most people were living in real poverty! How did this shop and all the others in the town scrape a living? My grandmother told me that she could rarely afford to buy meat as such, but would often buy "a bag of bones" with which to make stew. Were there enough wealthy people in the town to support shops like this? I suppose there must have been.

[Gerry Glyde]

I lived in Plynlimmon and will try and remove the cobwebs from memory and give the butcher's name for the period. (1950-1980)

As for the nature of the butchery trade, West Hill area was not all impoverished and the streets varied as did the income of the residents. Some streets were considered a cut above others as can be seen by the design of the houses. Priory Road, St Mary's Terr and more so Collier Road were more prestigious than Plynlimmon, Alpine and Gordon. Several houses on Vicarage Rd had servants. Butchers boys would have delivered perhaps over quite a wide area.

There was development on the Hill from around 1830-1840 of some Georgian properties in Castle Hill Rd. Plynlimmon House, West Hill House, Castle View House and Rev Wallinger's mansion in Castledown. All of these were occupied by people with several domestic staff and could therefore enjoy regular meat and other produce, whilst lodgers such as Robert Noonan in Plynlimmon Rd and his fellow tradesmen, in receipt of irregular incomes would have had less money to spend.

In addition there were a number of private schools in the area, including the one at the bottom of St Mary's Terr opposite what was the Manor Hotel, amongst others. They will not have all been of the type run by Wackford Squeers of Dotheboys Hall! and will have served meat for the boys.

[Gerry Glyde]

This is an extract from an article about the area in the late Victorian /early Edwardian era


For example in the 1891 census there is an entry for a John Bateman who was described as a retired merchant. He was the occupier or owner of Plynlimmon House, an imposing Georgian property with a frontage of some 60 feet that faced towards the West Hill and it was possibly double the square footage of neighbouring terraced house in Plynlimmon Road and the upper part of St Mary’s Terrace. Mr Bateman resided there with a housekeeper and a general servant. Three people had plenty of space. The housekeeper and servant would have had limited facilities for themselves but nonetheless reasonably comfortable.

There were other similar properties on the edge of the Hill. Castle View House which is adjacent to Plynlimmon House was of similar size and outlook. Both of these properties predated the development behind it which eventually became Plynlimmon Road. The road was made over to the Council for new housing in 1867, 60 years after the houses that directly overlooked the West Hill. In 1891 Castle View House was occupied by a retired Civil Engineer who was fortunate enough to be able to cease work by the age of 46. His wife was then aged 39 years and they had a son of the age of seven. Ten years later, West Hill House which was joined to Plynlimmon House was occupied by a Congregational Minister and his housekeeper and servant.

How different their lives must have been from their near neighbours who had to work as long as possible in some cases right up until death or entry into the dreaded Work House. Old Age pensions were not introduced until 1911.
By then Plynlimmon House was occupied by a widower and his family. He was described as a retired Beer & Coal Merchant, perhaps an unusual combination of products. However any product that needed to be transported about by horse and cart could easily be done by the same firm. The merchant lived with his three adult, unmarried daughters and two adult, unmarried sons. Only one of the sons, the youngest at aged 22, was shown as having any form of occupation and he was described as being a student. They were looked after by two resident women domestic servants.

The house was at that time occupied by eight people and was therefore a suitable number, in relation to the size of the property. Prior to the First World War, many middle class families employed domestic servants, most of whom were women, who would be resident in the family home. They would therefore be available to rise early in the morning to prepare the house for the day and ensure that breakfast was waiting when it was required. The servants would remain available throughout the day until the employer retired to bed. Non resident male servants would often be used for gardening duties. The life chances and experiences of the middle classes was markedly different to the people who looked after them, most of the latter who would need to work until they were no longer able to do so. They would then need to rely on family or be admitted to the Work House, which was a dreaded omen for many poorer people.

[Gerry Glyde]

The photograph looks as if it was taken between approx.1891 and 1911. The property is listed as No 10 and 11.

In 1891 the business was run by Charles Crouch aged 34 who was married and had four children at home as well as a domestic servant. By 1901 he was still there but was married to a different woman and had four children, however not the same as previous. The eldest son who was 17 in 1891 had by 1901 left home.

I possibly put my money on the photograph being around 1911 as there was a change in description of the head of the household who was then Rowland Barham. In the previous two censuses Charles Crouch was described as a butcher; whereas in 1911 Rowland Barham, age 51 was described as a Butcher's Manager. If you look at the person on the right hand side of the picture he is dressed in a formal suit rather than an apron as the other people are dressed. That may indicate that he was managing the shop rather than actually working as a butcher. It does not explain the presence of the young lad next to the manager as he only had a daughter aged six, listed in the census. I have not been able to trace Charles Crouch as yet in 1911. I have not gone back to 1881

[BisleyBullet]

Thanks for all the information.

We think the gentlemen, second from left - with a cross next to him, is Thomas John McConnell - born 10 Jan 1868, died 9 Jan 1933. That is my wife's grandfather !!

The 1870 census shows him living at 109 Manor Road, working at home as a butcher, well before the suggested date for this photo.

[jimbreeds]

Hi folks,
We don't seem to know the year of the photo but I wonder if this helps? From my 1923 Hastings street directory a scan of the details of the butcher on the corner of Alpine and Plynlimmon. Hope this helps?

(I would love to share this photo on my Facebook page if the person who owns it gives me permission).

Best regards,
Jim