Hello all,
I am researching for a book that is centred around the Old Town, including the fishing fleet area and George Street. The story is set around late 1940/early 1941. There is a fair bit of generic information readily available on life in Britain during the Second World War but I am after some specifics to give some local authenticity. My list so far:
1. What commercial properties were in George Street during this time? I'm specifically after pubs, bakeries and butchers at the moment.
2. Where there any bicycle shops in the Old Town? Did such things actually exist then? If not, where would someone have sourced a pushbike?
3. Where was the nearest police station? I have found reference to one in Battle Road, near Adelaide Road but can find no specific historical record. Were there any others near the Old Town?
4. Was there an MOD office in Hastings?
5. Where would the ARP wardens have been stationed, if anywhere? Or were they linked to a police station?
I've been in touch with the museum but am likely to struggle to get to the Local Studies room during its opening hours (Wednesdays 10:00-14:00). I'm also bound to come up with many more questions and, while I have made some inroads, I'd be grateful for any pointers.
Thanks in advance.
Steve
Hastings Forum
George Street during WW2
Re: George Street during WW2
Hi sri999,
To find shops in George St. you'd need to consult street dirs before and after the war unless anyone has 1'st hand accounts and as the Library is shut the dirs are now kept temporarily over at Rye, unless you can get 'History House' to show you some.
As a precaution all 'foreign nationals', had to be sent 20 miles from the coast so Hastings lost many prominent business families. With the low countries falling to German invasion just across the Channel, Hastings seafront soon became a tangle of Barbed wire, walls of concrete blocks and sealed streets, gun emplacements and Tank traps, not to mention huge oil tanks set up to burn on the beach in case the enemy invaded from the sea.
Camber Sands was heavily fortified as it was seen as a prime access point because the water was so shallow.
Access to the beach was forbidden except to fishermen who had special permits to use a guarded gateway at Rock–a-Nore.
The town was evacuated in 1940 owing to the onslaught of bombing, as Hastings became a practice area for young German airmen who would also machine gun along a road to kill any stray locals.
By September 1940 the town's population was reduced from 65,000 to 22,000 and large number of troops were stationed in the Old Town. The St Clements caves were used as an air raid shelter, hospital and school and housed 300 to 400 people.
Fishermen were machine-gunned and bombed, much to their annoyance as they willingly rescued any German pilots shot down at sea.
As for ARP stations, there was more than one, but often scattered around because each part of Hastings had to be 'Policed' to check that all properties in a particular area were complying with 'blackout' rules and some 'stations' were small affairs located in places like the garage of a Police or Fire Sation Chief, their locations may have changed as the war progressed, making it difficult to identify them.
The swimming pool at St Leo's was one of the repositories used for goods needed by the ARP, Gas Masks, etcetera.
Research is made more difficult because much information was classified during the war and for many years afterwards and security was extremely tight, for instance if you made a phone call from a public box and the operator asked for your location, if you did not know the name of the phone box you were using then two police officers would be sent to interview you as it was feared that Germans might be attempting to infiltrate the town.
There was a coastal command around Hastings Hythe and Rye so there must have been an MOD office somewhere, Churchill was appointed Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports in 1941 and was responsible, along with the Minister of Defence for protection of the coast.
Churchill was a good friend to the Cinque Ports.
There were many Canadian RAF personnel stationed in one of the large hotels along the Hastings front, and soon after one lot arrived most of them were killed during a bombing raid.
A few locals would keep an open house for Canadians or any other armed forces who wished to come.
Hastings was a wealthy town before the war but because of disruption to private schools and business, and consequent job-losses, especially following evacuation, much money was lost or spent in surviving and many services never resumed.
There would have been bike shops here and there because, of course, Butchers and Grocers sent boys on bikes to deliver goods locally and not many members of the public could afford a motor car and petrol was rationed, if available at all and extremely expensive.
So there would have been a lot of bikes in general use.
To find shops in George St. you'd need to consult street dirs before and after the war unless anyone has 1'st hand accounts and as the Library is shut the dirs are now kept temporarily over at Rye, unless you can get 'History House' to show you some.
As a precaution all 'foreign nationals', had to be sent 20 miles from the coast so Hastings lost many prominent business families. With the low countries falling to German invasion just across the Channel, Hastings seafront soon became a tangle of Barbed wire, walls of concrete blocks and sealed streets, gun emplacements and Tank traps, not to mention huge oil tanks set up to burn on the beach in case the enemy invaded from the sea.
Camber Sands was heavily fortified as it was seen as a prime access point because the water was so shallow.
Access to the beach was forbidden except to fishermen who had special permits to use a guarded gateway at Rock–a-Nore.
The town was evacuated in 1940 owing to the onslaught of bombing, as Hastings became a practice area for young German airmen who would also machine gun along a road to kill any stray locals.
By September 1940 the town's population was reduced from 65,000 to 22,000 and large number of troops were stationed in the Old Town. The St Clements caves were used as an air raid shelter, hospital and school and housed 300 to 400 people.
Fishermen were machine-gunned and bombed, much to their annoyance as they willingly rescued any German pilots shot down at sea.
As for ARP stations, there was more than one, but often scattered around because each part of Hastings had to be 'Policed' to check that all properties in a particular area were complying with 'blackout' rules and some 'stations' were small affairs located in places like the garage of a Police or Fire Sation Chief, their locations may have changed as the war progressed, making it difficult to identify them.
The swimming pool at St Leo's was one of the repositories used for goods needed by the ARP, Gas Masks, etcetera.
Research is made more difficult because much information was classified during the war and for many years afterwards and security was extremely tight, for instance if you made a phone call from a public box and the operator asked for your location, if you did not know the name of the phone box you were using then two police officers would be sent to interview you as it was feared that Germans might be attempting to infiltrate the town.
There was a coastal command around Hastings Hythe and Rye so there must have been an MOD office somewhere, Churchill was appointed Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports in 1941 and was responsible, along with the Minister of Defence for protection of the coast.
Churchill was a good friend to the Cinque Ports.
There were many Canadian RAF personnel stationed in one of the large hotels along the Hastings front, and soon after one lot arrived most of them were killed during a bombing raid.
A few locals would keep an open house for Canadians or any other armed forces who wished to come.
Hastings was a wealthy town before the war but because of disruption to private schools and business, and consequent job-losses, especially following evacuation, much money was lost or spent in surviving and many services never resumed.
There would have been bike shops here and there because, of course, Butchers and Grocers sent boys on bikes to deliver goods locally and not many members of the public could afford a motor car and petrol was rationed, if available at all and extremely expensive.
So there would have been a lot of bikes in general use.
Re: George Street during WW2
Steve
My Dad lived in Stone St as a 'bit of a lad', apart from a couple of months in Chippenham.
His memory is good, but he's spoken more of scraps on the West Hill and showing the Commandos how to get up the cliffs than the Old Town.
I'll ask him, may even be able to RV at a local pub (I note your location). Got to visit the Millers Arms at some point soon.
Having a map or two and photos would be good prompts if it comes off.
Brian
My Dad lived in Stone St as a 'bit of a lad', apart from a couple of months in Chippenham.
His memory is good, but he's spoken more of scraps on the West Hill and showing the Commandos how to get up the cliffs than the Old Town.
I'll ask him, may even be able to RV at a local pub (I note your location). Got to visit the Millers Arms at some point soon.
Having a map or two and photos would be good prompts if it comes off.
Brian
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Gerry Glyde
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:56 am
Re: George Street during WW2
There is already a slim book on Hastings in the War years by Mary Porter. When I get home I will have a look at it. The main Police Station was at the rear of the Town Hall at the time along with the police court.
As for pubs they will be much the same as today except for the current 'Old Pump House' which is not very old at all. There is also a website listing old pubs and if memory is correct a book of the same name. Look at Hastings Pub History. Can you give an acknowledgment to 1066 website it might boost readers
As for pubs they will be much the same as today except for the current 'Old Pump House' which is not very old at all. There is also a website listing old pubs and if memory is correct a book of the same name. Look at Hastings Pub History. Can you give an acknowledgment to 1066 website it might boost readers
Re: George Street during WW2
The library may have a section on personal reminiscenses of locals in Hastings during the war.
As Whiffler says the older ones will have stories to tell, as written information is hard to find.
I think sri999's questions are useful as they show that we have plenty of tales in general but few specific facts, also that specific facts are difficult to rely upon as many may have changed during the course of the war.
As many facts were never documented or even 'classified' we have to rely on the limited knowledge of a specific person through the mist of time or from the fog of confusion of the war.
German planes would fly over to identify buildings to bomb but would make mistakes (as today) and the wrong buildings would be bombed. Hence the clamp down on information, the suspicions and the saying 'carelss talk costs lives'.
As Whiffler says the older ones will have stories to tell, as written information is hard to find.
I think sri999's questions are useful as they show that we have plenty of tales in general but few specific facts, also that specific facts are difficult to rely upon as many may have changed during the course of the war.
As many facts were never documented or even 'classified' we have to rely on the limited knowledge of a specific person through the mist of time or from the fog of confusion of the war.
German planes would fly over to identify buildings to bomb but would make mistakes (as today) and the wrong buildings would be bombed. Hence the clamp down on information, the suspicions and the saying 'carelss talk costs lives'.
-
Gerry Glyde
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:56 am
Re: George Street during WW2
There are a number of oral history books in which older residents gave recorded interviews of life in the early mid 20th C. They may still be available from the tourist info bureau or Hastings Hse. The library probably holds copies. One of my former employers born circa 1910 gave an interview
Re: George Street during WW2
Fascism did come to Britain, but it was not in the way that Hitler had brought it to Germany.
We had the 'Black Shirts', loyal to Oswald Mosley, with members in Hastings, although the BUF (British Union of Fascists) was disbanded by the British government after the outbreak of World War II. (Menbers gave the Nazi salute which was unforgiveable in the circumstances).
Mosley had strongly opposed political rivals in the 1930s with his relentless attacks on successive governments for promoting imports of foreign goods, and on city financiers for damaging British manufacturing and agriculture by making loans to foreign countries.
We had an equivalent of a Nigel Farage, supported by loyal members during wartime in Hastings, although the movement was not primarily anti-semitic, unlike the Nazi regime in Germany, however Mosley certainly disliked the element of Jewish finance.
The BUF favoured economic revival based on government spending and protectionism following the Italian model, Mosley was very impressed by Mussolini's achievements.
History repeats itself to a degree.
We had the 'Black Shirts', loyal to Oswald Mosley, with members in Hastings, although the BUF (British Union of Fascists) was disbanded by the British government after the outbreak of World War II. (Menbers gave the Nazi salute which was unforgiveable in the circumstances).
Mosley had strongly opposed political rivals in the 1930s with his relentless attacks on successive governments for promoting imports of foreign goods, and on city financiers for damaging British manufacturing and agriculture by making loans to foreign countries.
We had an equivalent of a Nigel Farage, supported by loyal members during wartime in Hastings, although the movement was not primarily anti-semitic, unlike the Nazi regime in Germany, however Mosley certainly disliked the element of Jewish finance.
The BUF favoured economic revival based on government spending and protectionism following the Italian model, Mosley was very impressed by Mussolini's achievements.
History repeats itself to a degree.
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