Old pictures of Warrior Square

Looking for info on Hastings & St Leonards past times. Post here!
User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby seahermit » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:54 pm

That statement is untrue and ill-informed. Whilst there is of course no legislation governing classic cars (or fine arts), there are strict conventions on how an old car (vintage, veteran, classic) should be restored. Talk to any professional restorer.

It is actually very similar to restoring an old, traditional building. The same sensitivity and respect for the original design applies and the idea of adding modern components, "improvements" and upgrades is generally anathema - except that in practice some safety devices have to be incorporated (the law does even allow some exceptions there) and some people cannot resist putting in a modified or more powerful engine. Original models with no new components command greatly higher values than cars which are not completely authentic.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 3347
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby Richard » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:07 pm

Property restoration/alteration is heavily regulated.
Fine art and classic cars not so.
Thanks for agreeing seahermit.

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby seahermit » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:16 am

Your earlier statement did not refer to either legislation or regulation. The word you used was "rules". Contrary to your implication that, with classic car (or fine art) restoration, it is a free playing field for anyone, the opposite is the case.

There are plenty of rules, largely dictated by the markets and by the difference in value between items which have been properly restored by experts and those which have been maintained/restored badly. The fact that those rules/conventions are not legally imposed is irrelevant, they are very well-adhered to by a whole industry of people who care about old "works of art" (includes steam engines, I suppose!) and who are prepared to spend time preserving them.

I am sorry but there is no point in making a woffly statement which is incorrect and does not reflect the true situation. It merely misinforms other people.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 3347
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby Richard » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:05 pm

In the case of property there are general rules or guidelines, when these are flouted then regulations may be enforced by law.
In the case of fine art or classic car restoration you are free from any rules.
Market forces do not stop poor restoration work and play no part in rules, guidelines, regulations or the law.
You can restore fine art or motor engines as you wish, there are no rules.
Enthusiasts do it for the love of it.
I'm sure readers can form their own opinion

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby seahermit » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:37 am

You are coming over as a little muddled, Richard! Earlier you said "property restoration/alteration is heavily regulated". Now you have gone back to "there are general rules or guidelines ... may be enforced by law". Which line of argument do you wish to pursue? You can't have both of 'em, cos they are contradictory!

In any case, what you are maintaining is nonsense. Of course there are plenty of amateurs who will "do up" an old car or try to restore an old painting, there will always be those people. But the results of their work usually have the effect of actually decreasing the value, since poor workmanship means that it has to be undone by somebody later. Market forces play the major role - you will rarely see classic cars, which somebody has "had a go at" and done it badly, in an auction room, because serious collectors wouldn't go for them. Not for a decent price anyway. The unwritten rules/conventions dictate that original factory specifications and authenticity are king and professional restorers stick to those standards pretty religiously.

UncleB
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:56 am

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby UncleB » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:07 am

I'm not the kind of person to sit about and watch life go by - well not for long anyway (I do love a day by the beach, sitting in a hammock in the shade, reading a good book, sipping a cold drink and people watching between chapters).

Looking around properties in St Leonards for the last 4 years has made me really want to get stuck in and fix some of the horrible renovations that I've seen and the to fix the damage to beautiful old buildings that developers have inflicted over the years.

The place we have now that had that abomination of a conservatory was one of the first places I had the urge to buy just to fix it! It stuck out like a sore thumb in what is otherwise a beautifully and sensitively restored square with a lot of history.

The process took a year to complete in order to buy it but it has been worth it - I hope to get some good videos of the finished product in the next few weeks.

Regulation wise it is mostly around the exterior where the draconian rules apply - we consulted with the council before we could even refurbish the original windows, and full planning permission with lots of supporting paperwork (thanks to those here for the links to historic photos by the way) was needed but it seems to be going through without too many issues (fingers crossed).

On the inside we used trade certified professionals for the electrics and plumbing as these were completely gutted since they were rotten or just plain rubbish. The regulation was mostly building regs and since we asked for the work to be certified with a 10 year guarantee then it was all done to the letter of the rules.

We did move some internal partition walls and I took videos of the whole process in case building control want to see proof that the work was done to the appropriate standards. I took the precaution of getting a structural surveyor to review the old exposed stud work before we changed it so thier report formed the basis of the support beams we used in any large openings.

That is the extent of the rules we had to follow, other than perhaps a new internal front door being of the appropriate BS regs for fire safety and deadlocks being on the BS reg to keep insurers happy (the same for window locks).

Classic vehicles also have to meet most MoT standards to be road worthy, although there are allowances for the older technology in many very vehicles. The quality and sensitivity of the work is mostly convention rather than rules, but this will greatly impact the value of the vehicle.

I used to do some old motorbike restoration many moons ago and it is something I would love to do again when I finally get a home with a decent sized garage again. There is just something so rewarding about bringing life back to something long neglected and making it into a cherished item once more.

There are plenty of people in the resotration groups who want to stamp the "you must do it this way" doctorin on others, but they can bog right off - if the same result can be achieved with the same quality by a different route then it does not matter.

I also don't follow that you have to be a purist and use only the brand of tyres that were factory fitted etc - better by far to have tyres that work well on our roads and improve safety.

I'm sure there are plenty of purists that would claim I have not used the appropriate mix of plaster, the right type of nails or that an en-suite bathroom is inappropriate. It all works well, made the renovation faster and of better durability / safety and makes using it better for our needs.

I have rambled on a bit - I better get back to work LOL - just had a delivery of conrnicing that needs installing.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 3347
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby Richard » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:21 pm

Speaking of old motorbike restoration, I had a Welsh neighbour, a chemist, who told me he had a prized vintage motorbike in his youth, the brand name eludes me; he found the pistons did not fit snugly.
I am also uncertain how many pistons.
Anyway, he could not afford to have them re-plated, presumably nickel is preferable as it is more hard-wearing.
He managed to electroplate with copper and solved the issue.
How many people do that these days?

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby seahermit » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:46 am

UncleB, I don't mind the rambling on - I am glad you have posted so much about this renovation project because I have found it completely fascinating and inspiring!

I agree that an obsession for absolute authenticity e.g. in building restoration is unnecessary and unrealistic. Time and technology move on, also in modern times of course we have different demands for our living spaces. The important thing is to use materials and designs which are "in sympathy" with surrounding architecture, as opposed to some ghastly clash of styles from different eras.

Warrior Square IS a rather elegant and beautiful space. What a pity that the area around the station has been so spoilt - maybe the new college building is fairly imposing for a modern structure (not sure it's in the right location) but the 1960's tower block is hideous and the new office buildings in Havelock Road are impersonal and ugly and quite out-of-place in a Victorian terrace.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 3347
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby Richard » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:55 pm

"The unwritten rules/conventions dictate that original factory specifications and authenticity are king and professional restorers stick to those standards pretty religiously."

That is what you stated seahermit.

Clearly not the case.

User avatar
seahermit
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Old pictures of Warrior Square

Postby seahermit » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:49 pm

It is obvious that, whilst maintaining authenticity as far as possible, concessions have to be made for the sake of modern regulations, safety requirements etc. .. as UncleB pointed out.

Common sense has to apply. Some people have it, others don't seem to ..!


Return to “Historic Hastings”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests