H Orchard Butchers Shops

[Geoff]

A couple of lovely old photos contributed by Stuart Bennett for inclusion on the website.

The first one is situated at 5 George Street. Any ideas where the second shop was? No.22 - but in which street?

[Gerry Glyde]

Those were times when children realised that meat came from dead animals and not miraculously turned itself into flat bits of meat for going into baps, or was shrink wrapped from a supermarket.

There is an innovative project in a junior school somewhere is south London that engages a chef to teach the children that if they want meat they have to raise the chickens in the school grounds, then choose the one to be killed, before plucking it and cooking it. At first there was revulsion as the disconnect between the animal and dinner plate has been created by the replacement of local butchers with supermarkets or instant/frozen food. They have learnt a lesson.

I am not sure if it has created any vegetarians!

[Derek Jempson]

I'm sure that the sight of those pig's heads and carcasses hanging outside the shop would cause revulsion in many people these days - in fact, I feel certain that such a display would be banned on health, aesthetic and religious grounds.

[cbe]

Great pics of the butcher's shops. No idea at all where the '22' shop was
but I can declare an interest in the other site. My wife's uncle, Charles
Adams, used to have that shop (still as a butchers) in the 1940s, 50s and 60s (and
possibly earlier) and his son Colin took it over thereafter. The alleyway at
the side led to the Queen Adelaide.
As an aside in the early part of the 20th century one Charles Adams was in
trouble with the law for 'riding his butcher's bicycle furiously down Old London
Road'. Quite possibly he was, at that time, the butcher's delivery lad for Orchards
since that is the shop he eventually had.

[Richard]

Hastings has little in the way of a half-decent Butchers these days, the same goes for a good Bakers, or Delicatessen's.
People with money would rather shop at Morrison or M&S, the rest visit Iceland, Jempson's or 1066 Bakery, not forgetting the Bakery in London Road.
There are a few High Street Butchers, but they don't inspire much confidence, which is a shame as Hastings has access to fresh meat from a variety of independent producers:

http://www.cpre.org.uk/resources/farmin ... k-hastings

In Hastings I wouldn't know where to buy really fresh and tasty chicken for the oven, or good roast ham or beef, which is the sort of thing a Butchers should be able to supply, along with excellent raw meat.
Failing that,a good Deli should be able to offer decent meat & poultry cuts, plus fresh bread and pastries.

[Gerry Glyde]

Few good butchers and bakers and candle stick makers can not be found for a guinea!

[Richard]

whatever the date was of Geoff's photo's there must have been some money around, for sure.
And a high demand for fresh meat, which most households would have struggled to cook in their tiny kitchens.
I suspect many of the aspiring middle-classes would have got meat cooked locally, in town, and then had it delivered to the house, in order to serve it up for guests.
The sculleries at the backs of properties along St. Helens Road would have struggled to prepare much in the way of substantial meals.
The better-off would have had large ovens and more servants, but it still looks like people ate a lot more meat in those days and there were probably plenty of Butcher shops in the area.

[Derek Jempson]

The relative cost of fresh meat has varied a lot over the years. When I was a boy, chicken was very expensive and my family could afford to buy a chicken only at Christmas, so that was our Christmas dinner. On the other hand, I can remember having beef for Sunday dinner fairly frequently, so it must have been much cheaper than chicken. Now, I can have chicken for dinner every day of the week (if I wanted to), but beef is an occasional treat.

It may be then, that a hundred years ago, even the poorest families could afford to buy some kind of meat, thereby keeping the profusion of butcher's shops in business.

[Richard]

I think we've heard before that it's likely that the shop windows decorated with carcasses of meat were presented thus for a special occasion, even so, local producers would have been more than capable of providing plentiful supplies when the demand arose.
I don't believe the poorer-classes were ever able to afford decent cuts of meat, more than once or twice a week, and that poorer cuts would have been the norm, right down to the present day.
There were no 'supermarkets' supplying cheap meat from refrigerated supply centres and local farmers would, therefore, have been the main source, in any case.
Since it is well-documented that Hastings went through periods when the wealthy were holidaying and living it up, this may explain why a better class of food was available in the past.
Hastings certainly was not classed as a deprived part of the country in the past (unlike today) although there will always be large divides between the rich and the poor.

[whiffler]

whatever the date was of Geoff's photo's there must have been some money around, for sure.
And a high demand for fresh meat, which most households would have struggled to cook in their tiny kitchens.
I suspect many of the aspiring middle-classes would have got meat cooked locally, in town, and then had it delivered to the house, in order to serve it up for guests.
The sculleries at the backs of properties along St. Helens Road would have struggled to prepare much in the way of substantial meals.
The better-off would have had large ovens and more servants, but it still looks like people ate a lot more meat in those days and there were probably plenty of Butcher shops in the area.

I don't wish to be unkind, so I will just opine that much of this is a little wide of the mark ...... and is judging people's abilities/inclinations by modern standards.

My grandparents in Stone Street would turn out a meal for 20 or more on special occasions.

I myself turned out a full roast meal for 8 using a biscuit tin in a hole in the ground - aged 13. I dug the hole, made the chimney, set and maintained the fire. And the next year I was teaching others to do it.

Of course, any evidence that a company locally was cooking meals for distribution might make me reflect further.