Independence Day

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cbe
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:22 pm

Nobody died - WE are still ok? I posted a poor joke - you took it the wrong way - we will move on ?

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:14 am

I am still unclear on how the wretched Irish Border will be resolved, beyond a fudge.
T. May relies on the vote of Northern Irish unionists to have a majority in the House of Commons so she has to tread carefully. If T May had not gone to the country for greater support for her leadership, after the resignation of Cameron, she might have been able to risk a solution that angered the Irish Unionists?
The 'plebiscite' vote merely asked us whether we wanted to stay or remain in the EU.
Nobody outlined the problems along the border with Ireland and N. Ireland/rest of the UK.

However, the Irish wanted, and have, independence from the UK and borders and border checks are already inherent in that so passport access should not be any different?
Back in 1922, after the Irish War of Independence and the Anglo-Irish Treaty, most of Ireland seceded from the United Kingdom to become the independent Irish Free State, which after the 1937 constitution, began to call itself Ireland.
Of course Ireland are remaining within the EU but I suspect that the EU do not want Ireland to supply us with tariff-free goods they have supplied Ireland with and also they do not want us to let them have our goods without some sort of arrangement in place.

If the UK defaults to WTO rules the EU would still have to maintain its side of the border. That would require checking goods coming into Ireland from the UK, that’s because the EU’s existence as a free trade area depends on its ability to demonstrate to the WTO that it can control its external borders properly. As far as movement of goods is concerned, EU can introduce hi-tech checks to deal with imports/exports, if that means no hard border in Ireland everyone should be able to tolerate this.
However, the EU are still being a hard task-master and T. May is standing up to many of their demands / solutions because she knows they will not go down well in her divided (and weak) Parliament.

cbe
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:39 pm

As you say Richard the 'EU would still have to maintain its side of the border' ergo the problem is theirs not ours. Simples

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:14 pm

I think you are right cbe and we are either in or out completely, not half in on a flakey fudge.
The EU seem to be putting us to all the trouble of engineering a complicated compromise (viz Chequers) and then poo-pooing whatever we come up with.
They say we can't remain in the customs union and our border control ideas are unworkable, therefore we should go for a hard Brexit and let all the existential angst end asap!
There seems to be no real alternative, leave them to sort out their problem and stop messing us about!

cbe
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:29 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby cbe » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:15 pm

It's not too surprising that the EU are taking the course of action they are, for a variety of reasons. (a) They do not want us to go bearing in mind the massive contributions we make. (b) They do not want to make it look possible for any country to leave this 'trading bloc' (c) We have an army of 5th columnists in this country giving them hope that 'Brexit' can be watered down or scrapped.
Leave - now...!

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:12 am

From 'NewStatesman' September 03/2018:

20 Conservative MP's – well in excess of the number needed to wipe out the government's parliamentary majority – have publicly turned against Theresa May's Chequers.
Which leaves the United Kingdom in the same perilous position that it was in when parliament rose for the summer: there aren't enough votes for May's deal, there aren't enough votes for a looser arrangement, there aren't the votes for a Norway-style deal, which leaves the most likely outcomes another election or exit without a deal.

It looks like the proverbial is about to hit the fan...
:shock:

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seahermit
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Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Independence Day

Postby seahermit » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:50 am

It does indeed look bad. I don't think there will be another election just yet .. despite all the problems of the Labour party, the Tories must realise they are in a precarious position. May's attempts to tough out the opposition from Boris and Co. don't seem to be working, so probably yes it will end in a no-deal Brexit. Whereafter after that .. anyone's guess!

Not my problem. I'm off today to get a cataract done, so wake me when it's all over and tell me who won.

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:03 pm

I wish you the very best result possible from your eye-op seahermit.
Maybe the 'Brexit' challenge (the hard-winter that we are never prepared for) is just the stimulus we need to break free from being controlled by the ever-expanding ambitions of Germany and France.

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seahermit
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Re: Independence Day

Postby seahermit » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:33 pm

Thanks Richard, that's nice. At the moment my eye looks as if I have been subjected to extreme interrogation by the Krauts, but I am told it will clear up in a few days and I will look a bit more human!

I whooped with joy when the referendum result came through (even hung a small Union Jack out of the window for a few days!). We should never have gone down that path in the first place, the British have a long history of being entrepreneurs, individualistic, nonconformist, adventurous .. to be tied into a vast political and cultural bloc is alien to the British nature. The next few years are likely to be difficult (but more difficult than has already been the case for a decade or two?). But maybe the challenges will do this country good and focus minds upon what is really important.

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Richard
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Re: Independence Day

Postby Richard » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:24 pm

From the Guardian:

"The British government will have to experience its “darkest hour” and stare into the abyss of a no-deal Brexit before it will cave in to Brussels demands, senior EU diplomats have predicted."

Surely our 'darkest hour' was a lot longer than that during WWII when we fought for freedom in a much more challenging and serious situation?


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