It is hard to respond because a number of statements above are simply not addressing real issues. Why is Tim Martin not representative of the business community? You used the word "industry" - did you mean only the bits of industry/business community which you wish to pick 'n choose?! Tim Martin represents middle-sized UK companies, he is as free as any employer to use EU labour if he so wishes (there have been several foreign girls working at the Hastings pub) and what on earth has the cheapness of the beer got to do with it?!
The idea that remaining part of the EU will enable the UK to play for higher stakes is a fantasy which hasn't happened yet. What "higher stakes"? What exactly will we be missing out on? I'm dying to know.
What we WILL be missing (hopefully) is the over-regulation, the EU bureaucracy and the massive financial price being paid by the UK - all of this has been well-aired previously and I am not wasting time rehashing old arguments.
Hastings Forum
Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
In an effort to pull the debate back on to its original track, my eyes are glazing over at the eruption of squabbles, exaggerated claims and bitter accusations between the various political parties. I know it's always been the same .. but this time maybe I am more cynical than ever, or are they a bigger bunch of "entertainers" than ever?!
At present, it seems impossible to predict the course of events. I don't wish to waste a vote on a pointless protest (not at all appropriate this time round), so it's "wait and see". Both main parties are endeavouring to take advantage of the low interest rates and bribe the electorate with massive giveaways (economists are expressing concerns about the long-term consequences) - but I see all that as a major distraction. I think a lot of people will vote about Brexit. I just want it to happen, no idea about the most effective way to ensure that comes about.
At present, it seems impossible to predict the course of events. I don't wish to waste a vote on a pointless protest (not at all appropriate this time round), so it's "wait and see". Both main parties are endeavouring to take advantage of the low interest rates and bribe the electorate with massive giveaways (economists are expressing concerns about the long-term consequences) - but I see all that as a major distraction. I think a lot of people will vote about Brexit. I just want it to happen, no idea about the most effective way to ensure that comes about.
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
seahermit you seem all tangled up in ridiculing minor points that make up the picture.
Your comments go off on tangents that show you misinterpret, fail to reason or even understand what is being said.
I said not remaining in the EU was perhaps about playing for higher stakes and yet you somehow think I said staying in the EU and then try to disagree with something I have not said at all.
Somewhat like the deaf old trout on Fawlty Towers.
You do this sort of misinterpreting too often for me to have a sensible discussion, then you come back with personal feelings of confusion about what to do or think next re- Brexit and the political situation.
Next you will start to be arrogant, rude and lofty toward me before being nice again.
I feel you are prone to being remorseful after inflicting pain.
I certainly agree that we need to get back on track, now that you have had your little diatribe.
Your comments go off on tangents that show you misinterpret, fail to reason or even understand what is being said.
I said not remaining in the EU was perhaps about playing for higher stakes and yet you somehow think I said staying in the EU and then try to disagree with something I have not said at all.
Somewhat like the deaf old trout on Fawlty Towers.
You do this sort of misinterpreting too often for me to have a sensible discussion, then you come back with personal feelings of confusion about what to do or think next re- Brexit and the political situation.
Next you will start to be arrogant, rude and lofty toward me before being nice again.
I feel you are prone to being remorseful after inflicting pain.
I certainly agree that we need to get back on track, now that you have had your little diatribe.
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
I agree that I have probably misinterpreted some of your comments, because they are often expressed in a confusing way and it is hard to understand what essential point you are making. I am sorry if it comes over as arrogance, it is more like irritation! You are well-informed and much more knowledgeable than me on the factual stuff but spoil it a bit at times by deviation and waffle!
I don't see anything wrong with being confused about the political situation, half the country is confused. I know what I want and voted for and am quite angry that I am being deprived of that undemocratically by various political groups who have their own agendas. It is a question of who will deliver what was promised and, from a very disparate array of dubious politicians, who is the best of a bad lot.
I don't see anything wrong with being confused about the political situation, half the country is confused. I know what I want and voted for and am quite angry that I am being deprived of that undemocratically by various political groups who have their own agendas. It is a question of who will deliver what was promised and, from a very disparate array of dubious politicians, who is the best of a bad lot.
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
seahermit, You accuse me of waffle and deviation (pot, kettle...) but what essential point are you making that you accuse me of not making?
You say 'It is a question of who will deliver what was promised'
What was promised was a 'leave' but the terms and conditions were not set out explicitly and hence the current political situation, which will probably never fully satisfy what any of us imagined we were getting. Therefore J.C. is suggesting further options, although I can see that another referendum, which results in a 'leave' majority this time around, could cause massive protests and riots/civil disobedience, therefore it will be dangerous and ill-advised to say the least, to hold one.
Okay, so I previously opined that another referendum might help but I now realise it would be totally wrong, for reasons outlined above.
I now see that this is not sensible and neither is the 'remain' stance of the crazy Lib-Dems.
We voted 'Leave'.
Labour additionally do not like the terms of the Bojo 'oven-ready' deal and want to negotiate further.
The SNP want to stay in the EU and pull out of the U.K. (they voted 'remain') despite not realising that to rejoin the EU after leaving the U.K. would mean another border issue with the U.K. on a par with the Irish border quagmire.
I will say again that the referendum was ill thought out as it left the interpretation to the politicians, in the drama we now see unfolding.
I bear no responsibility for this and am just commenting my thoughts which may change as I gradually perceive what is happening...
You say 'It is a question of who will deliver what was promised'
What was promised was a 'leave' but the terms and conditions were not set out explicitly and hence the current political situation, which will probably never fully satisfy what any of us imagined we were getting. Therefore J.C. is suggesting further options, although I can see that another referendum, which results in a 'leave' majority this time around, could cause massive protests and riots/civil disobedience, therefore it will be dangerous and ill-advised to say the least, to hold one.
Okay, so I previously opined that another referendum might help but I now realise it would be totally wrong, for reasons outlined above.
I now see that this is not sensible and neither is the 'remain' stance of the crazy Lib-Dems.
We voted 'Leave'.
Labour additionally do not like the terms of the Bojo 'oven-ready' deal and want to negotiate further.
The SNP want to stay in the EU and pull out of the U.K. (they voted 'remain') despite not realising that to rejoin the EU after leaving the U.K. would mean another border issue with the U.K. on a par with the Irish border quagmire.
I will say again that the referendum was ill thought out as it left the interpretation to the politicians, in the drama we now see unfolding.
I bear no responsibility for this and am just commenting my thoughts which may change as I gradually perceive what is happening...
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
I do see the point you are making (here!) and find myself agreeing. It would be churlish to pretend otherwise because, yes, the potential consequences of the referendum were obviously not thought through, nor any terms and conditions considered. Because the politicians did not expect to get the "wrong" answer, presumably.
However, my position in other respects largely remains the same - implementing the referendum result should have been the first priority, difficult or not. Instead, three years have passed by without politicians focussing their minds on the awkward problems and hammering out some sort of agreements/compromises and the Remain movement has manipulated all that confusion and delay to try to stop Brexit altogether.
I don't think there can be any doubt that a great deal of anger will be expressed up to and on election day and the stance of the LibDems ignores that reality and is likely to pour fuel onto the flames. Delaying Brexit much longer or commencing a whole new round of negotiations (Labour) is only going to make the country even more divided and disrupted.
However, my position in other respects largely remains the same - implementing the referendum result should have been the first priority, difficult or not. Instead, three years have passed by without politicians focussing their minds on the awkward problems and hammering out some sort of agreements/compromises and the Remain movement has manipulated all that confusion and delay to try to stop Brexit altogether.
I don't think there can be any doubt that a great deal of anger will be expressed up to and on election day and the stance of the LibDems ignores that reality and is likely to pour fuel onto the flames. Delaying Brexit much longer or commencing a whole new round of negotiations (Labour) is only going to make the country even more divided and disrupted.
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
Corbyn for PM? You're having a laugh, aren't you?!
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
Hmmm. I'M having a nightmare about it ..
Re: Corbyn will never be Prime Minister
Cbe. Do you have a problem with young women who have the temerity to express an opinion and to make a plea that society listens to climate academics and scientists?
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