Johnson's lies

[ColinL]

cbe. You really are stirring the hate (and unsubtantiated claims) talked of by Mr Merritt with this little nuggest of fact free claim
"we are becoming less civilised and that town and dozens more are perfect examples of YOUR point. All of a sudden you don't agree, strange?"

Where are these dozens of towns to which you refer? Can you list them, give the numbers of incidents involved, in comparison to the similar incidents not involving the perpetrators of the ethinic origin, that you refuse to specify?

In what way have I suggested the incidents that you are only interested arising in Rotherham, are of no importance or do not constitute uncivilised behaviour? Please specify in detail without your usual generalities of 'socialist dogma' or 'do gooder' or similar meaningless slogans.

And still no comment or response from you about the lack of suitably trained prison staff, the problems associated with keeping people in cells for 20 hours a day making weaker vulnerable prisoners even more at risk of harm. The lack of outlets for prisoners to learn new skills and therefore an alternative to their previous criminal behaviour. Not one word except a vague reference to the thought that our views on sentencing are different. Longer sentences in the UK by comparison to previous decades for the more serious crimes. You dont have any answers

Unless you can answer some of those issues then all you are doing is stirring hate for your own amusement. Your life must be very meaningless and hollow if all you can come up with is your comments but are unable to debate fact and reality

[ColinL]

Richard You are right to identify the issues of the sentencing rules. I have not read up on the various changes on IPPs, so will not comment specifically but it is appropriate that it should be raised on a 'Johnson'lies' thread. It is well documented by Oborne that Johnson readily and without compunction, lies we he decides to do so. He has been challenged by lawyers on his claim that Khan was released due to Labour. Khan served time on remand that is normally deducted from the time imposed at sentence which can be many months after the person is arrested. I am not going to chase all the details of the sentence but he was given an 8 year IPP minimum term. On appeal following various legal challenges (including Khan) the IPP was replaced by a determinate 16 year term and he was released after 8 years (including remand) and thus served the full 8 years of what was the original sentence.

IPPs were subject to challenge given that a person would have no idea what their potential goal would be and that could make discipline very difficult for prison management which brings me back to the point of trained staffing that cbe is very reluctant to address

Johnson's party was in government from 2010 onwards. They could have chosen to change the law but they chose not to do so. It was a cheap point for Johnson to try and direct blame at Labour given that they could have acted had the felt the necessity to do so.

[cbe]

Colin - there is only room for one pedant on a forum such as this and that is why I was loathe to list the actual towns -but you are insistent - and if you do not know of these cases and dozens more you either never read a newspaper or listen to the television or radio or are a liar. I am just clipping and posting a handful -

[cbe]

and these (surely enough for you - there are dozens of cases throughout the country ) oh and you want me to say that these are by a vast majority Muslim men of Pakistani origin

[ColinL]

Dozens and dozens of towns?
How many cases of abuse by non-muslim men have there been and how many children, boys and girls were involved? What was the status of the abuser and the statuses of those seniors who covered them up? Surely you must have that information or are you not interested.

Still nothing from you on the problem with prisons and that we now lock up record number of people

[cbe]

Colin you are in serious denial and are beginning to sound ridiculous. As regards these handful of cases I've shown you (at your insistence) I could do the same every day for weeks - do you believe me? The point is - this is organised, this is industrial scale, this is blatant and has been allowed to continue by Labour councils overseeing their police forces and social services. YOU
should be ashamed of yourself and any decent person would want to drop this topic post haste - I suspect you won't.
You are a perfect example of the party you support

[ColinL]

You have provided a handful.

I can see that your prime concern seems not to be the victims themselves, but the councils and whom they are run by. Councils do not control the police who act independently of political control and Chief Constables do not decide which cases to pursue, based upon politics. Chief Constables can arrest civic leaders if they wish to do so and there is evidence to support such action. The Alexis Jay report did not find any active collusion along the lines that you imply. It did find incompetence or inaction by some councillors if memory serves me correctly.

It was you who raised this subject in the first instance in a post about Johnson's lies. Perhaps you would like to address the original subject

[cbe]

I only posted a handful out of sympathy for other people who have to wade through this stuff - there are dozens and dozens of cases and you know it. But you cannot admit it. Is it because the perpetrators are black/coloured/people of colour (not sure what this week's nomenclature is) or is it because that group is your party's hope of staving off complete humiliation at the General Election ? I don't think I will continue with this particular topic because reading your protestations and deflections makes me feel unclean.

[cbe]

Colin wants me to talk about prisons, I'm pretty sure it's another case of 'yes, but what-about' otherwise known as deflection but anyway I will humour him.
I think prisons should have two aims (1) punish the wrongdoer (2) protect society whilst that wrongdoer is out of the way

Prisoners should serve their full sentence - every time.
Anyone taking drugs into prisons, be it visitors or warders, should receive an
immediate custodial sentence.
Prisoners should be offered education and practical training courses to assist them when they are eventually released.

Is that enough for now Colin? You can take a little time to read up on Jezza's views on this before replying.

[ColinL]

cbe. It is not about deflection from me, it was in direct response to your comment about convicted person's being given 'slaps on the wrist', that they needed to serve 'full term' (Khan did serve his full term on the original sentence). That Britain's sentencing policy is leading to longer sentences- despite your protestations of 'slaps on the wrist

It is you who has ignored the specific issues raised about lack of staffing, overcrowding, lack of access to diversionary activities to steer away from crime, the potential for disturbances due to those factors.

I do not need to read up on Labour Policy as these are the issues raised by staff from the lowest to the highest grade, by the police service, by academics, by psychiatrists and psychologists. The only people ignoring them seems to govt and you. Now what is your answer to the specific problems of burgeoning prison numbers(92,500 and rising) and the issues related to that. It is all very well for you to give a silly answer but we live in the real world.