Labour - a rethink

[ColinL]

Just one more snippet little seahermit. You appeared to be angered that I described you as being middle class. My comment comes from the information you gave us recently, which is that you used to read the Telegraph and then the Times at weekends. Whilst it is not always possible to determine class from a person's newspapers, I doubt that many Telegraph and Times are delivered on the Malvern Way estate, the Hollington tower blocks, or Bembrook. However it is quite likely they will be found around Gillsman's Hill, St Helens and Lower Park roads. The latter areas are middle class the others are not.

Seems fairly reasonable assumption that you are middle class. I also refer to the sketch about class on That was the Week that Was, that you may remember. Jokes and comedy need to be very close to fact (which your or the other ones cartoons are not), the characters of John Cleese down to Ronnie Corbett description was accurate to a tee.

Sorry too many words again for you

[seahermit]

Richard, compare your own courteous, respectful posts (rather more restrained than I can achieve at times, to be honest!) with the often deliberately rude way Colin addresses me or CBE (his other "rightwing" devil) and his confrontational, argumentative style. Do you not see a world of difference?

As far as I am concerned, the forum has been very much spoilt by Colin's personal animosity towards anyone who contradicts his statements and his twisting of my words and my motives. Just read through his posts.

What more can I say? Colin clearly is a very frustrated, pent up individual but for me it has all become a waste of time and not worth it.

[Richard]

I do think you have taken a bit of a bashing seahermit but you can see it for what it is.
ColinL has a legal background and I suspect that lawyers are more quarrelsome than most because of the way they are trained. The Prosecution lawyers job is to undermine the arguments of the Defence lawyer, their job is to make sure that statements cannot be misinterpreted.
Law is very exacting and focused work and most people are simply not used to or even able to argue at this level.
One of the reasons many lawyers do not engage in debates online is often because people don’t want to debate or argue properly, or they don’t know how to do so. They want to use ad hominem attacks, they want to bring in irrelevancies in an effort to distract from the original issue. Few lawyers have the patience for it, so when you have people who argue the way trained lawyers do, versus the way most people argue, you can probably see why lawyers have a tendency to come out on top.
In other words, the lawyer’s job is to look for flaws in the argument as against assessing the evidence, and to that extent an articulate lawyer will typically win an argument without proving a case.
I think you are both very interesting and worth 'listening' to, most people would run a mile rather than argue with a lawyer.

[cbe]

Has Colin actually said he is a lawyer?

[Richard]

Under the topics 'Corbyn will never be Prime Minister'
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 am

'Cbe. You are entitled to your opinion.
I am a retired lawyer. and have experience in discrimination cases.'

[seahermit]

He was no lawyer. That is a pretence put out by Colin himself. How many lawyers are unable to spell or punctuate properly and use a hundred words to express what could be said in a dozen?

If Colin came out with some precise statements shooting me down on my inaccuracies or vague thinking, I would have some respect for him. But his thinking is clearly unfocused and the resulting statements are often woffly, difficult to understand and at variance with the reality around him. When challenged on factual situations, he just calls everyone liars and propagandists!

I was going to list some of the offensive ways Colin refers to others. Well, just one or two: "Miss Seahermit", "little Seahermit", to CBE "must try harder next time" etc. I don't need to quote others, they are all in his posts and illustrate the rather arrogant and contemptuous attitude towards other people.

I am afraid I cannot amend my personal view of Colin, others are of course free to differ if they wish but I don't see any evidence of a different personality behind the rude posts.

[seahermit]

If the thread returns to being a proper restrained discussion of the poliical issues, then I might get interested. Until then, I am bowing out, whilst others work out their personal frustrations and animosities.

[Richard]

seahermit you do have a high-handed tendency to dismiss others as less knowledgeable if you believe they don't suit your agenda.
A sort of arrogance that makes you look waspish, hence the jibes of Miss or Mrs.
Come down off your high-horse, swallow your pride and argue your case, if you believe you are right, rather than just flouncing off!

[seahermit]

Richard, you are making a misjudgement of the situation. I have never condemned anyone for being (or seeming) less knowledgeable - that is not the point. But I have no patience with someone who knows (or should know) perfectly well what the facts of a situation are but chooses to ignore them and just cries "liars, propaganda, Tory press" and all that nonsense.

I love the image of Miss Seahermit "flouncing off" in a huff and gathering her pinafore together - but I am not really that bothered about Colin, there will always be people like Colin to whom winning an argument and scoring points is more important than making sense and having an interesting discussion.

If you or others want to continue with this bickering business, good luck to you but I am not under any obligation and I have more enjoyable things to do.

[Richard]

seahermit, I think ColinL has mainly tried to use reasoning and logic in order to dispel misconceptions and propaganda in the press and in personal attacks against Corbyn, re- the antisemitism allegations, and those who use weak and misleading arguments elsewhere. He has made a good case in my opinion.
Personal views are just that, they often end up in people attempting to belittle each other, best kept to ones self instead of bickering, whoever is the culprit, this just leads to acrimony, I suspect it 'Takes two to Tango'.
If you want go now and draw a line under what you see as a failure of communication on a personal level then so be it, I have tried to avoid clouding issues with emotional interference as this serves no useful purpose.
We are all entitled to our opinions but should try to see another's point of view and respect their contribution.