UKIP

[Olly]

[quote]The "anythings better" argument is a dangerous one and usually wrong. I can think of many "worse" situations than what we have now, although I do agree that the current bunch are terrible. History is littered with "anythings better" disasters.[/quoted]

Fair point, but on the balance of probabilities? To re-instate into power known losers and incompetents, rather than give a newcomer a chance to prove himself different, is totally illogical. Indeed in this case, where the future of our country is concerned, it's suicidal, and I question the motives of anyone who would argue with that rationale. If Farage does screw up he can be voted out, so what's to lose??

[quote]Personally I disagree with just about everything Farrage says and more importantly, I don't trust his reasoning (what little there is) or motivations. Most of his followers seem to be habitually angry or fearful people who have forgotten what they are angry about, they are now just plain scared or angry about anything and everything.[/quoted]

I don't 'get' the latter part of that paragraph - I mean all parties have got their share of wackos and weirdos you might agree - but can you please tell me why you distrust Farage, or what you perceive as a deficit in his sense of judgement?

[Anonymous1]

I consider UKIP to be a right wing party_ _ _..by UK standards, extremely so.


Would you agree Olly?

[Olly]

[quoted]
G.K. wrote:
I consider UKIP to be a right wing party_ _ _..by UK standards, extremely so.


Would you agree Olly?
[/quoted]

No I wouldn't agree - unless you're confusing patriotism with xenophobia? I've been saying for a long time that there are those who are exploiting our hospitality by claiming asylum under false pretences - the latest being that if they go home they'll 'be persecuted for their homosexuality' and some already here in the circumstances (ie illegally) bellyaching that they've started a family, and then go on to invoke the human rights act to avoid repatriation. I remember the Question Time when Damian Green was ranting on about what the coalition has done to clamp down on this kind of cynical abuse, listing about 3 important initiatives they've implemented designed to restrict the applications, and when he finished the UKIP spokeswoman sitting next to him said calmly and quietly 'That's all we've been asking you to do - nothing more, nothing less.', which neatly exposed Green for the lying hypocrite he is. The fact of the matter is that if UKIP hadn't drawn attention to this dangerous social matter the mainstreams wouldn't have done a thing about it. There's a thin line between patriotism and nationalism, and when under social pressures, patriots can easily turn into nationalists - then the trouble will start. I loathe extremism left or right, but the extreme left have had the self-serving politicians on the run for the last 2 decades and jut look at the state our country is in now!

[Richard]

I know we are seen as a bit of a "soft touch" but there are rules and regulations and tests and all manner of hoops and hurdles to pass through in the legal integration of foreign nationals wanting to stay here without mainstream qualifications.

Those lacking in the above are not exactly granted a soft cushion by politicians, it is the legal system which intervenes and then we are into diferent territoty, I am afraid.



Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

[Olly]

[quoted]
Richard wrote:
I know we are seen as a bit of a "soft touch" but there are rules and regulations and tests and all manner of hoops and hurdles to pass through in the legal integration of foreign nationals wanting to stay here without mainstream qualifications.

Those lacking in the above are not exactly granted a soft cushion by politicians, it is the legal system which intervenes and then we are into diferent territoty, I am afraid.
[/quoted]

Well the damage has been done now hasn't it! The illegals might have a bit more difficult (or not - it rather depends if you believe the politicos or not - I don't!!), we're now obliged to allow in anyone from an EU member state without question - witness the 4 Romas who have been recently convicted of child abuse?? Did they come here 'to find work' when we have an unemployment figure of nearly 3 million? Puh-lease - they were benefits claimants or I'm a Dutchman!! And how many more are making travel plans even as we discuss it I wonder?

[Olly]

[quoted]
Richard wrote:
I can't see UKIP easily usurping the lib-dem's ability to get into bed with the the next biggest opportunity for power-sharing.
We shall see !!

[color:blue]Is 'coalition' government symptomatic of UK public cynicism for the majors?[/color]
I don't know except I believe it is quite common abroad and perhaps for different reasons.

No, it's because the dumbed-down populace is more interested in who's going to be voted out in their fave reality show than in politics. I envy them really!!






[/quoted]

[Olly]

[quoted]
Richard wrote:
I know we are seen as a bit of a "soft touch" but [color:blue]there are rules and regulations and tests and all manner of hoops and hurdles to pass through in the legal integration of foreign nationals wanting to stay here without mainstream qualifications.[/color]

That reminds me - did you happen to see, on the national news, the expos where the classroom of 'students' were taking the Citizenship Test, Richard? The 'tutor' was giving them all the answers to the questions.
:erm:

[Richard]

I saw it where the 'students' paid to have someone else sit the test for them.
Clearly it needs policing.
If you come here as a genuine student and pass a degree or similar I think you can skip the citizen test on the path to applying for a UK passport as it is assumed you must have sufficient knowledge already.




Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

[Olly]

[quoted]
Richard wrote:
I saw it where the 'students' paid to have someone else sit the test for them.
Clearly it needs policing.
If you come here as a genuine student and pass a degree or similar I think you can skip the citizen test on the path to applying for a UK passport as it is assumed you must have sufficient knowledge already.

[/quoted]

An industry has sprung up to enable applicants to circumvent the rules and regs., and to generally run rings around the bureaucracy - which isn't hard to do!

[Anonymous1]

[quoted]
Olly wrote:
[quoted]
G.K. wrote:
I consider UKIP to be a right wing party_ _ _..by UK standards, extremely so.


Would you agree Olly?
[/quoted]

No I wouldn't agree - unless you're confusing patriotism with xenophobia?


[/quoted]

You're towing the party line_ _ __ _ __ _ _.or you don't understand the distinction between Left and Right wing politics_ _ __ _ __ _ __ _ _.or you're in denial_ _ __ _ __ _ _.or you're happy to hide the reality.

It walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, farts like a Duck, in fact it does everything like a sodding Duck and yet Farage insists it isn't a Duck (Paraphrase of link below). IMO This is because he wants to hoodwink the mainstream floaters (yuk lol)

Olly, you say you hate extreme politics: Then my advice to you is to stay well away from these guys because they ARE extreme.

You're probably aware of the following Olly but I'll post for others benefit:

UKIP is a member of an organisation called "Europe of Freedom and Democracy" or EFD. This organisation is made up of various European Eurosceptic parties. They are considered right wing.

Farage was (is still?) the co-president of this group, along side an Italian politician called Francesco Speroni who had this to say about Anders Breivik (remember him? Utoya massacre) "Breivik's ideas are in defence of western civilisation."

Another member of the EFD, a Mister Mario Borghezio said that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage did ask Borghezio to withdraw his comments but received a refusal. Borghezio went on to say "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."

As I said earlier there is very little reasoning involved with this kind of ideology. It's a legacy of childhood anger, fear and paranoia. It's an adult rationalisation of those destructive emotions_ _ __ _ _.some folk have more of them than others.

Another UKIP member, Nikki Sinclair refused to have anything to do with EFD because of their extreme views, good for her. She was subsequently kicked out of UKIP. There may have been other quoted reasons for this, no doubt you'll let us know.

More info here:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... k-evidence



_ _ __ _ _..Olly, step away from these politics

By the way Olly, what software are you using to construct your posts (fancy highlights, underscore) ? I guess you must be doing a fair bit of blogging/thread posting in various forums to warrant it_ _ _..