Primark

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Richard
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Re: Primark

Postby Richard » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:43 pm

Labels are a form of advertising, pure and simple.
Advertising works locally and globally and is a truly massive industry.
Most wealthy people will pay for quality, but in places like Hastings many poorer people will prefer to save pennies by buying the cheapest goods possible .
People are generally so very poor in Hastings and don't wants fancy, expensive consumer goods / labels.
Low-margin high-volume retailing versus high-end low-volume exclusive designer brands will always exist in some sort of continuum / relationship.

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seahermit
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Re: Primark

Postby seahermit » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:28 am

The whole situation is very mixed up these days. In the past, a far greater proportion of clothes sold were of better quality and better cut because that's how things were made those days, with more pride in workmanship. There was still of course a divide between those who could afford the finest quality materials and those who had to go for cheaper and more functional garments.

Now, in countless towns like Hastings cheap, throwaway, off-the-peg clothes from highstreet chains are largely the norm - even though some dinosaurs like me still favour good quality stuff and might travel to Tunbrdge Wells to find it!

But with fashion and sports goods, a completely different dynamic applies. The relentless glossy magazine ads, alluring TV commercials etc. are a sort of brainwashing (the old adage, first create your market and make people think they need it) resulting in a largely younger and imressionable customer base who will sell their soul for the latest Nike trainers or Adidas hooded sweatshirt. It has nothing to do with quality and is not restricted by expense - the sole motivation is acquiring status and "street credit".

Of course a similar sort of persuasion is exerted higher up the scale e.g. those flashy Brightling watch ads or those commercials in which vastly overpowered cars perform fantastic stunts in dreamlike mountain landscapes. Such possessions really don't change your life and plenty of other vehicles will get you to the supermarket -
but "wow, I really must have one!"

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Richard
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Re: Primark

Postby Richard » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:35 pm

Turning back to charity shops for a moment.
Certain labels are much more popular, for whatever reason, and the Charity Shops that receive massive loads of unpopular or damaged clothing, which can't be stored or displayed then sell it off, by weight not quality, to middle-men and the stuff ends up being exported to third world countries, Africa, Russia, Eastern Europe.
Only 10 per cent to 20 per cent of the clothes we donate are sold in Britain to be worn again, the rest are off-loaded to textile traders who are making a fortune.
There also the numerous municipal textile banks which belong to textile traders.
Charity shops still make money out of all this but it goes to show that labels / branding is all that matters to the high street.
Yes, quality of materials and styling will vary according to what standards the fashion label applies / demands and these can fluctuate if European retailers are trying to squeeze more profit from popular hence more lucrative brands.

There is a body called WRAP which monitors the ethical sourcing:
http://www.wrapcompliance.org/en/history

No doubt others exist, imagine the look on the face of management at a local store when you ask if there product is ethically sourced!

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seahermit
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Re: Primark

Postby seahermit » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:09 am

You seem to be missing the point I was making - it is NOT the case that "labels/branding is all that matters to the high street". In some areas like fashion and sports, there is an illusory status symbol appeal to buyers, but otherwise cheap, low quality garments predominate everywhere and many people don't give a damn what the label is as long as the price is slashed down. Are you actually unaware of the demise of many quality retailers and the continuing struggles of chains like M&S and House of Frazer?

The reason that charity shops receive cast-off clothes has nothing whatsoever to do with their having unpopular labels (ridiculous! If they were unpopular, why did people buy them in the first place?!) - nor with their being damaged. They are largely thrown out because they are old (but people know that the materials can be recycled) or because the previous owners are now six feet under freshly turned soil.

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Richard
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Re: Primark

Postby Richard » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:59 pm

seahermit - you seem to be Mr. Angry and shouting a lot these days.

The high street retailers are struggling to do whatever they can to stay in business, competing with the internet and Charity shops, some have to move to areas with higher footfall, i.e. River Island may move to a larger Mall elsewhere whilst Primark can still move into Hastings(eventually) selling cheap clothing, although some of it will be more popular brands/labels.
I pass no judgement on what you deem quality retailers.

I did not say that Charity shops mainly receive unpopular labels, I said they find it easier to sell popular labels/brands and price them accordingly, the less popular or damaged are too many to store in the back of the shop and are sold off to middle-men.
Why would the Charity shop not concentrate on what they can get more money by selling?

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seahermit
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Re: Primark

Postby seahermit » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:20 am

No offence intended and I'm sorry if any was caused. But in a debate it seems to me very important that arguments should be precisely based on actual evidence and your sweeping statements, often veering off sideways into speculation or suggestion, worry me quite a lot!

I agree that really all retailers are struggling greatly to survive and the internet is just one factor. Some people will still always like to walk into a shop, view and handle the goods - what is really bad, and reflective maybe of our over-materialistic society, is frankly the "greed" of property owners and, it has to be said, local councils. The rates and rents demanded are so onerous that not only are big chain stores (and some charities) the only traders able to afford them but for small businesses the opportunities for starting up and carrying on a modest trading enterprise are being completely eliminated - hence rows of boarded up premises everywhere in the UK.

If charity shops display a predominance of popular branded goods, that is not something I have noticed at all. I worked in charity shops briefly in London, Lymington and Hastings (enjoyed myself very much). But in my experience what is put out on the shop floor depends heavily on condition and attractiveness and the label has only a marginal effect on pricing. If it looks ok with a chance of selling, out it goes, whatever obscure label it might carry. If it hasn't sold after a few weeks, THEN it gets shifted out the back and into a bag for the dealer!

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Richard
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Re: Primark

Postby Richard » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:47 pm

Hello Seahermit,
Like any Greek or Roman citizen I feel the need occasionally to cast around to gather local opinion and see what is going on.
Clean garments well-made and of good quality and condition are all sold by Charity shops.
I was making the additional observation that sometimes labels attract higher prices and Charity shops have charts suggesting what each label should be valued at, some clearly attract a premium.
You seem to be be-moaning the fact that old-established shops/names no longer stock decent quality goods and that the yoof of today are attracted, like moths to a flame, to the Brand name labels regardless of quality.

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seahermit
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Re: Primark

Postby seahermit » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:14 am

It is true that some charity shops use pricing charts, but they have little control over what clothes are donated to them and the clothes usually come from all sorts of original sources and bear a multitude of labels. The quality and the "sellability" remain the over-riding factors in deciding what goes onto the shop floor. Although some charity shops like Oxfam do also send better garments up to London - destined maybe for the high-quality Oxfam shop in Baker Street where a higher price can be charged!

As I said, the high-status labels, especially for the younger market, attract inflated prices regardless of whether the quality is any greater. But the general trend of course has been towards cheap throwaway clothing and you have to travel (or go online) to find better or traditional items.

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Richard
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Re: Primark

Postby Richard » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:44 pm

Never mind the label, feel the quality or whatever suits you as labels can't always be trusted but at least they are something to go on.
But some of us buy clothes that flatter us rather than are sensible, durable or well made.
Women are fashion-conscious creatures and know exactly which labels they like and yet can still be beguiled by something that just happens to look stylish regardless, the colour(s) the pattern and natural material are important too.

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seahermit
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Re: Primark

Postby seahermit » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:15 pm

Richard, from time to time you seem to delight in coming out with things which don't make sense!

There is no reason at all why clothes which flatter us cannot also be "sensible, durable or well-made". There is little conflict between the quality/durability of a garment and whether it looks aesthetically good.

I suppose that, if you are talking about mountain gear for going up the Cumbria fells in bad weather or protective gear for cleaning out the sewers, you wouldn't exactly dress like a fashion icon.

But what could possibly be smarter than a Harris Tweed jacket (I had one or two when I was younger) or a really well-cut pin-stripe suit? Or a stripy Van Heusen shirt worn with a swanky pair of white canvas slacks for the summer (good label inside)?

I can't say much about women's clothes because I don't wear them very often, but I'm sure there are plenty of equivalent examples. Can't imagine Megan Markle appearing in public wearing fashionable but cheap-label, throw-away dresses which look crumpled and creased by the end of the afternoon!


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